Safe Speed Forums

Check this out...http://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/2005/january/13/5415.asp

Note this one..."Off-peak hours are charged on an individual basis, whereas on-peak, defined as 11pm to 6am, attracts deliberately swingeing costs of £1 per mile, specifically to deter people from driving at what is regarded as the most dangerous part of the day."



You don't get many mobile cameras out at that time of night...

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Speed camera policy Kills

Pretty soon, these will be standard equipment on all cars because who wants to pay for insurance when your car is stopped? The added bonus is that average speed can be figured out as well, so we won't need cameras to ping the speeder louts.

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Ouch. Even with the "generous" 100 on-peak miles/month free allowance, that could still cause a lot of people to rack up a serious insurance bill each year. What about the shift workers travelling to/from work during that period who don't have any alternative but to use their own car - penalising them in this way for having no choice but to drive in those hours could make it financially impossible for them to continue working... And it'd be a big disincentive for leisure travellers to take advantage of the quieter hours to make good progress - placing more traffic on the roads during the daytime/evening hours, causing more congestion and the potential for more accidents.

I like the general idea of PAYG insurance, knowing that if you didn't drive as much one month as the previous month it'd be reflected in a lower insurance bill for that month, but I think the charges have to be set realistically, based purely on genuine risk factors for driving at certain times on certain types of road, and not simply set at an arbitrarily high level to dissuade people from driving at certain times of the day or night.

Not so long as we have a choice...

We all have the right to freedom of travel without being "tracked"

It is why we live in a "free"society.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Umm, me? If I'm sat stationary in a traffic jam and some uninsured idiot smashes into the back of me, I don't want to worry that the insurance black box in my car has thought to itself "hmm, been stationary for more than a few seconds, must be parked up somewhere" and discontinued my insurance cover... Granted, in your vision of the future where everyone is driving around with one of these boxes, there won't be any uninsured vehicles, but during the transition period where some are covered by PAYG insurance and others remain covered (or not) by traditional insurance, it's a scenario that could occur.

More realistically, there HAS to be at least a minimum level of insurance cover applied to the vehicle at all times, even if the engine is switched off - what happens if you've parked up for the night in bad weather conditions, and you're woken up by the sound of breaking glass and creaking metal as a tree, brick wall, chimney etc. is blown over onto your car?

Imagine getting stuck in a traffic jam and finding your rate is about to go up from 10p per mile to £1

Imagine the temptation to SPEED to get home before the charges go up...

Even if it is "inappropriate" that the device won't detect.

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Speed camera policy Kills

It's almost like introducing a curfew on private motorists...

At least I wont subsidise 'risk freeloaders' out of my insurance bill! Let the users pay and if he or she takes risks, let them pay more, not me. I want a lower bill as my reward for less risk. You are right though – fee scales have to have the right granularity for this to succeed.

By the way, if this had the effect you mention (to make roads dangerous by increasing peak-time road use), then the risk would move in the opposite direction and costs would be lowered during off-peak times, so this is self-correcting if it is managed according to real risks. Insurance companies are well aware of this, and they will compete on cost once the service is established.

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Thats why you have no claims discount and age related charges.

You also get discount from some insurers based on low mileage already.

Why do we ned more?

Like I said...it could lead to more accidents.

It does not charge based on you ability.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Is doing a journey on quieter roads at night so much more risky than doing the same journey on busier roads during the day/evening, such that it deserves to be penalised by "deliberately swingeing" insurance premiums? I don't think so. Yes, driving at night brings with it risks that aren't present during the day (though the daylight/darkness issue isn't one of them in this instance, given that no mention is made of racking up the PAYG premium for people driving at, say, 6pm in wintertime when it could be just as dark as at midnight), but driving on roads that are significantly quieter brings with it a counterbalancing reduction in risk.



But does "deliberately swingeing costs of £1 per mile" sound like the on-peak rate is being set according to real risks? If the risks were genuinely so high that a rate of £1/mile were necessary, I wouldn't be describing the rate as deliberately anything, let along swingeing...

Remember this is a product being specifically targeted at under-21s, for whom driving late at night is statistically much more risky (either drunk, or stone-cold-sober "Des" showing off to mates). The £1 per mile is deliberately punitive to deter people from driving at those times - it's probably well above the real risk level.

I can't really see it spreading to the general insurance market, as it's in effect an expensive method of spreading the same costs around.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

You'll have to ask an insurance company (although they won’t tell you) - they keep extensive record on that, and set their rates to compete with other firms who are also very busy measuring the risk. It is always possible to refine their models, but they won’t bother if it is not profitable. The purpose of an insurance company is not to be fair, but to make money.



The system of capitalist consumerism that Britain is set up to function by ensures that if a firm doesn't set it's rate reasonably, another company can steal it's business at a lower rate and still make money, although this will take time - capitalism abhors a vacuum. You always have the option of not using them.

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I think you wil find that you are always insured, but you only pay for the miles you do.

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So rather than being simply a PAYG insurance scheme, it's also a financially based curfew on young drivers... terrific What about the young drivers who NEED to be on the road between 11pm-6am to get to/from work? What about the young drivers named on someone elses insurance, who'll have no such financial deterrent from going out at these hours?

Sorry, but I don't think using deliberately inflated insurance costs as a way of deterring someone from driving at certain times of the day is acceptable - if it's SO risky for someone to be driving at that time, then set the PAYG rate accordingly, but if the genuine rate based on risk would be lower than this £1/mile figure, then it should be set to the lower figure in order not to penalise those young drivers, who do need to be on the roads at such times, any more than is absolutely necessary from an insurance point of view. They'll already be hammered hard enough just because of their age, making it even more expensive may simply lead to more of them opting to go down the no insurance route...

This exact story were talking about may be for the under 21`s BUT old NU have stated that if the other black box scheme they started last year prooves successful they said they would eventually like to make it there main type of insurance.

Basingwerk, do you honestly think the insurers are thinking about saving money for good old joe motorist? this is about boosting profits and pleasing share holders, nothing to do with saving YOU money, why else do you think some of the other big boys want to join in on the money making fun?

Profits first, any good side effect that will look good to onlookers a great bonus.

So you could insure a vehicle despite not paying anything to do so... that seems exceedingly generous considering your comments regarding insurance companies being in it for the profit

FWIW, I know a 20-year-old that drives about 200 miles a week during "peak hours" during term time weekend commuting to and from college. So, that's say 30 weeks a year, or 6,000 peak miles per year. He currently pays about £500 p.a. TPFT. No doubt that amount would still be charged against his off-peak driving.

Now that represents a £6,000 per year peak driving bill just to commute to college. This is at least a 1200% increase on his current premium and students are among the least wealthy citizens in this country.

Personally, I think it's high time that the insurance cartel got its teeth pulled by including third-party insurance with your VED. At present, the insurance companies have more power than even the police to determine who can legally drive what -- and it 's high time that power was taken away.

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Will

Oh..no you wont.

How about fire and theft....and fully comp. Only a proportion of your insurance is third party only.

How about if someone nicks your car...do you get a bill for the mileage they have done. Does this mean that the thief is covered by your policy... Especialy when he is involved in a hit and run or ram raid.

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Speed camera policy Kills

No way - that would mean that I would have to subsidise crappy, high risk drivers. I like things as they stand - my bill is £135 a year 3rd party, £170 if I go fully comp, and I don't want to pay more to bail out the deatbeats.

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The peak hours on this scheme are 11pm - 6am, which presumably is not when this person is commuting to college.

Also, according to the link, it allows 100 "free" miles of peak hour usage per month.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed