Safe Speed Forums

I can't take credit for this thought but when I was talking with a friend the other day he hit on something which may be too close to the truth for comfort. Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere before but forgive me if it has been covered...

The younger generation have been brought up on games, getting ever more realistic each year. In the same way it has been suggested that we are cultivating violence because of these nasty games, my friend suggested that you have only to look at the driving games that today's drivers have been brought up on and how it must have had an affect on their driving in the real world when they get their licence. The latest one I saw, a rally type, is so realistic I could hardly believe my eyes - right down to the heat haze coming off the back!

Ten years ago or more I was mad on a game called Toca, a really good racing game. But as an adult, and already experience driver/biker, I could put it into perspective and enjoyed it for what it was.

But what affect would these games have on a young mind before he or she hits the road? That 10 year old kid would have enjoyed the same game as myself who today would be 20, but like I say - look how they have come on since then.

It's easy to see how the new generation of drivers would have come from this 'killer' world where you have nine lives. (not all, obviously)

It's purely anecdotal on my part, but from what I have seen it could be culpable for many of the accidents we see today in the under 20-something group?

I don't have an answer, but if what I am suggesting is true then someone should be looking into it very seriously.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I don't know how important the realisticness is. I used to play quite a few games (mostly Doom style) and looking back on them now the graphics are quite pixelated and very low quality, yet I remember it in much better detail. I've recently been going through Hexen again and when I first loaded it I thought... wow, that's 320x240 isn't it? The best one I realised that on was Dizzy, an Amstrad CPC game. That game has 4 colours. Four! Including black! I think the mind makes up the rest, like when reading a book.

I also played driving/car games. I liked them but I could never get the car to stay on the track around corners. I think there were some senses missing, like the ability to sense how fast it was travelling. The 'feel' of braking. And nobody told me that trying to do corners at top speed was a bad idea.

I never got confused between the games and reality. I never felt like getting a gun and going out shooting people.

But maybe other people think it's real?

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Andrew.

Although the realness of it is getting better, I don't think that's the big thing here to be honest.

They know it's not real but in the same way me and just about every other hot blooded young teenage male of the early 70s thought they were Kung Foo experts after seeing Bruce Lee, we have to recognise that young people are influenced by the things they see and the games they play and do act out their fantasies in real life situations.

Many of the blood and gore films don't go into graphic detail but it has still been associated with instilling bad behaviour in young minds, sometimes with awful cruelty or tragic results.

I have seen for myself, in another person's child, a boy getting excited by the thrill of getting around a circuit on his Sega and how he used to behave on his pushbike. "Thank god it doesn't have an engine", I thought to myself. The obvious difference of course is that there is no reset or 'play again' in real life.

So what's a fourteen year old going to be like in three years time with that kind of influence? What's a 17 year driver like today with that sort of upbringing?

There is a correlation IMHO.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

That illustrates a good point. Anyone who enjoys reading will probably agree a good book is far more involving than a film, yet it's nothing more than black and white print, the power is all in your minds interpritation of the authors words, the least "realistic" of all mediums can build the most powerfull picture.

And on that point, the mind, or lack of it is the problem with anyone inclined to drive like an idiot after playing a video game, and thats what needs addressing. Many moons ago I would drive pretty fast when playing fast thrash/metal/industrial music, should that be banned too? how far do you go? Beethoven was considered subversive when he first rocked the joint, kinda like the sid vicious of his day.

Computer games have been blamed for allsorts for years now, same with films. There has been violence and car chases in films since they were both invented, but before then- people still acted like mindless fools and psychopaths. I don't recall Jack the ripper citing death wish II as an influence.

Art mimics life. prohibiting it is like smashing the mirror. Doesn't change the way you look, just hides it from you, and sooner or later you'll see your reflection in something.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

They have a very positive road safety message:

Try playing a fairly good driving game after drinking alcohol and you'll never drink and drive again.

I have enough trouble playing them sober, should I not have a license to drive several vehicles; which is what my current license allows me?

The ability to deliberately take a virtual car round a corner at high speed and being able to lose it without consequences must be a good thing as the visual perception required is high. Travelling at the relatively slower speeds on the road means that your observation skills are better.

Of course, you could reach such a level where your visual sense is being so underused on the road that a higher speed must be maintained to prevent boredom.

Oh look there's a whole in my foot

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Prepare to be Judged

I think the whole blaming the ills of today's youth on computer games is something that really should stop. We've had them for long enough now to realise that most of our youngsters aren't violent murderous sociopaths, why can't we realise that the few that are already had something wrong with them before they got anywhere near an XBox.

When I was learning to drive, the game I was playing most was the original Carmageddon, a game which put you in a stupidly overpowered American muscle car (that was crap at cornering) and in order to survive you had to collect time bonuses by damaging other cars, or running over pedestrians (which was far easier). Despite this I have never hit a pedestrian once in my entire driving career.

Now that I do drive, I enjoy driving games less since they don't feel right, but I make an exception for Initial D, a game that encourages you to go drifting around blind corners on mountain roads, something I've never done in real life even though my car would be pretty good at it.

Just as FPSes let you take out built up agression in a harmless manner, I'd hope driving games would let you satiate the urge to drive like a twat without having to do it on a public road.

Oh and to the guy who is replaying Hexen, congratulations on an excellent choice of game, but go have a look at the "Doomsday" project that will run that game in full OpenGL high res graphics with optional high res texture packs, 3D models etc. etc.

And to just to prove that even modern computer games have no influence upon me. I will now refrain from eating some delicious cake.

I have to admit to being a bit of an addict for driving simulations. I have a Sony PS/2 and have wasted countless hours playing Gran Turismo 4 (fantastic graphics & circuit mapping - crap car physics), Richard Burns Rally (average graphics but superb car physics) and more recently TT Superbikes (a good compromise between the two).

In their own way each of these games has its moments of incredible realism, like the times in RBR when the back steps out and you fight with the car for the next 3 corners before you eventually go off, for example. TT Superbikes meanwhile has a "Mad Sunday" mode where you have to do a fast lap of the circuit whilst overtaking all the cars and avoiding the ones coming the other way. Real hooligan stuff and intensely entertaining, yet it does not tempt me to emulate this driving style on the public road even slightly.

No matter how realistic these games become, I don't believe there is ever any blurring of the line dividing them from real life, any more than reading (say) a biography of Hitler would make you want to go and re-enact his life.

The point about alcohol is extremely well made though. When you are trying to beat your own stage record just one drink will completely destroy your performance, by impairing your judgement of time, speed and distance whilst at the same time making you too bold.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

I had a good time about 5 years ago with Colin Macrae Rally (2? 3?) on PC with a force feedback wheel. After tweaking and fussing with the settings, and after unlocking the Cossie, I could feel the road properly and control drift by feeling the castor angle. SUPERB. Very good steering/handling physics.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I have CMR2 on PC and CMR 3 & 4 on the PS/2. Enjoyed them all immensely, but when I then got a copy of RBR it made them all look hopelessly crude. Ok the graphics aren't as good, nor are there as many stage miles or cars to pick from, but the sheer quality of the driving experience more than makes up for that.

Unfortunately it took a bit of a panning when it was released because it takes so long to learn to drive it. It takes hours and hours of practice just to reach a level whereby you can drive through a stage without crashing, let alone drive it fast, but once you do finally get comfortable with it then it repays all this investment in spades.

Put simply, the Colin McRae rally games are just that, whereas the Richard Burns one really is a driving simulation, and the "game" angle comes a distant second to that.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Like I said, it's not my original thought but I think it is food for thought so I could be swayed either way. I think we have to differentiate between nature and nurture and I'm in the camp that's thinks the young open mind could absorb bad influences from their environment. Well, we know this for a fact don't we so why not from a game too?

There have been many cases of copycat crimes. You may argue that if they didn't copy a particular crime it would manifest itself in another way but these are the nature group. With regard to the much larger nurture group, I'm not thinking of crimes as such but simple behavioural changes and an attitude for the worse which is reflected on our roads when they obtain a licence.

We here at SS, as rational mature human beings that have attended the university of life, could probably be subjected to almost anything without it changing our character very much. We would default back to our usual selves if we saw or were subjected to something promoting bad behaviour, but this cannot be said about the younger group. There's a very good reason why the average recruited age of American soldiers in the Vietnam war was nineteen and once these values are ingrained they almost become cast in stone. The same is true of the mass indoctrination of German soldiers who actually believed that Jews were worse than a dog. Catch them while they're young and corrupt their minds.

We all know how a child can be influenced by his peers so what's the difference between that and a game; a 'great' game that he and his mates all love to outdo each other on and get the best/fastest/most dramatic? One is coming from a person, the other from a TV - so what?

Just thinking out loud folks.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Your mention of copycat crimes actually proves my point!

Some big crime is all over the news for a few days and everyone has heard of it, then 2 or 3 people decide "actually, that's a good idea" and go and do something similar.

The other 65 million people in the country, including most of it's youth, dont go out and copy the crime.


I dont think there's much validity in comparing indoctrination to playing a game. There's a lot more effort involved and the participants can't just switch it off at any moment.


That said, I did just give in and eat some delicious cake, so maybe playing too much Portal has subconsciously influenced me, who knows?

Well okay then, let's think of something which infected us long ago via the media. I see kids mimicking, in words and deed, things which have very obviously comes from soaps, (the TV kind)

I hate soaps but when I have had the misfortune to channel-hop onto Eastenders, or whatever, it always looks to me like a shouting/slagging match! The kids are getting this from the TV and re-enacting it out in real life complete with the bad maners and speech - it's vile!

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

But is life mimicking art or art mimicking life?

Who can say? I can't.

(With apologies to art for this particular example )

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Well, modern art then?


I hope art isn't mimicking life on Coronation Street otherwise we're all just a bunch of lying, cheating, promiscuous, bisexual, drug-adicted murderous perverts. And that's just the chidren!

So different to when I watched Ena Sharples with my mum and the highlight was when someone sat on a knitting needle.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.