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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 09:01 
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It does happen! I've only been done twice, and the first was overtaking on double whites near Sutton Scotney on the A30.

Tells you how long ago (13 years) it was that I was done by a trafpol......


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:34 
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malcolmw wrote:
jomukuk wrote:
108. Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10mph or less. Laws RTA sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26

Is the JCB a "Road maintenance vehicle"?


This rule is now 129 but remains unchanged from the previous rule 108.

The fact that they still refer to a 'road maintenance vehicle' as the only type of moving vehicle you may pass, re-enforces by belief that little attention has been paid to existing, but out-dated, rules. Apparently, all the attention has been focused on adding bollocks. (Although there are some very pretty pictures now.)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 14:11 
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My slack wording above about a "ticket" for crossing a white line has obscured another issue.

After being reported by the police, I actually received a conviction in a Magistrates Court for crossing the lines. This was so long ago, Fixed Penalty Notices didn't exist. Under the Visa Waiver rules for entry to the USA, if you have EVER (the time limits do not apply) been convicted of an offence by a court then you must declare it and have to get a Visa from the Embassy. This involves going in person to London and being interviewed. I really can't be bothered just to visit a country which could elect George W.

On the Highway Code, I'm really lazy and haven't checked if the daft stopping distances (seemingly based on a veteran car with cable brakes) are still there. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 22:14 
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On the Highway Code, I'm really lazy and haven't checked if the daft stopping distances (seemingly based on a veteran car with cable brakes) are still there.


I suspect they have not been altered.

As an aside, Autocar mag tests (full road tests) record 70-0 braking distances. Your average family hatch (Focus/Golf/Astra etc) will brake from 70 to zero mph in ca. 46m give or take a metre or so. Even factoring in the "thinking distance", braking distances quoted in the HC would seem to be a little outdated.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 09:11 
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I don’t believe this is just about bikers, IMO they’re just using bikers as an excuse to make life difficult for all motorist.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 14:00 
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My thoughts, too! :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 14:04 
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I don't know of the width of that particluar road but I have been able to overtake cars without crossing double white lines when they indicate that they are letting me through.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 23:03 
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R1Nut wrote:
I don't know of the width of that particluar road but I have been able to overtake cars without crossing double white lines when they indicate that they are letting me through.


How often does that happen though?

Sure I let bikers past in the manner you describe, but I'm sure there's plenty of gits out there who will sit as close to the centre line as possible when they see you coming. I encounter enough of them in my car when the 2-lane road is wide enough to overtake in the face of oncoming traffic were it not for said person being obstructive.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 22:41 
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The A515/A5012 corridor from Buxton to Wirksworth has following resurfacing been subject to over zealous double white lining. I use that route most days in a car and I have to say that while some are reasonable others are quite legit for overtaking given the relative speed/performance of the vehicles involved. In Derbyshire, there are many examples of white lining where it is safer to overtake before the solid line breaks given the extra time that is afforded.
BTW the currently "closed" section of the A515 (Buxton south) has now sprung some 50mph lollipops.

Hypothetically, can I challenge the imposition of a white line when charged with abusing it ?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 00:08 
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The A515 50mph lollipops are on the "Long March" to Ashbourne.
Given that HGVs have been excused their limit (40mph) by the police for years I take it that sensibly there will be no enforcement of the granny limit on the A515.
If I get pulled I will be challenging at every level.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:46 
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The thing I’m struggling to get my head around here, and correct me if I’m wrong, is that Government has now handed down ‘law making’ to civilians. Local Authorities can now change the Road Traffic Law on the highway.

Civilians now decide on speed limits and road markings. Even to the extent that, I suspect, the line-painters have a bit of a free hand, judging from some recent white line changes near me. I have seen double solids changed to hatched areas bordered with broken lines!!?!!

This bizarre state of affairs results in the Police jumping to attention and enforcing the new application of laws, on the whim of civilians – bit like the puppet pulling the strings.

Of course, the bottom line is that inappropriate changes will result in contempt for the law.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:51 
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Grumpy Old Biker wrote:
Of course, the bottom line is that inappropriate changes will result in contempt for the law.


That's the crux of it and, I foresee an increase of accidents as a result.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 13:34 
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smeggy wrote:
Another law aimed at the minority, which will of course be utterly ineffective against them, but will needlessly have a significant negative impact upon everyone else :roll:

I see a parallel with speed limits here - aimed at the minority with a negative impact upon everyone else.

Still, I suppose some people will regard these double-white lines with the same regard for speed limits. :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 20:25 
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BottyBurp wrote:
smeggy wrote:
Another law aimed at the minority, which will of course be utterly ineffective against them, but will needlessly have a significant negative impact upon everyone else :roll:

I see a parallel with speed limits here - aimed at the minority with a negative impact upon everyone else.

Still, I suppose some people will regard these double-white lines with the same regard for speed limits. :roll:


I think you're right. It's not often that I disregard double white lines, but it seems likely to become a more frequent occurrence.

Best wishes all,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:12 
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IMO, double white lines are one of the few information markings which have been consistently well applied. I will be very disappointed if stupid use now makes the reliabilty of these worse and leads to widespread ignoring of their warning.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:32 
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malcolmw wrote:
IMO, double white lines are one of the few information markings which have been consistently well applied. I will be very disappointed if stupid use now makes the reliabilty of these worse and leads to widespread ignoring of their warning.


IMO It's already happening :(

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 13:23 
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malcolmw wrote:
IMO, double white lines are one of the few information markings which have been consistently well applied. I will be very disappointed if stupid use now makes the reliabilty of these worse and leads to widespread ignoring of their warning.


From my own observations I would say the double white line system is not sensibly used in many cases.

I quite often see situations where it prevents an overtake that would be safe, and other cases where it offers me the opportunity but I think it would be unsafe to take it.

It's not often I disregard it, but there are cases, and I expect there will be more now.

Best wishes all,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 02:38 
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I've just returned today from visiting my cousins in North Yorkshire last week. Lots of Bikes, cars etc obeying the rules and the solid or broken lines etc. Me, I always make a point (when in a line of traffic) to notice and move over left for bikers to give them room to overtake if they wish without crossing any lines.

I see very few BAD bikers.......MOST are more sensible (after all, they realise just how vunerable they are). And I frequently get a raised hand from many in recognition after making room for them to overtake safely.

I have to agree with what has been said earlier, "the Bikers" (a negative in the Public eye) have been used here to introduce a "NEW" restriction on OVERTAKING! Soon it will be an un PC, Socially unacceptable practice for you to overtake...........and if you DO, the "socially aware" pratt in front will deem it his responsibility to drive you into the oncoming vehicle by accelerating violently just to make his point!.......

Now I overtake, frequently........ I don't do it aggressively, I do it when it's safe, Yes I use the power of the vehicle to do
it descisively, and then slow it down again to a more reasonable figure...

Has "Pink Floyd" once said: "It's just another brick in the wall"!..............

The Wall between Freedom and Ultimate Control...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 00:10 
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Grumpy Old Biker wrote:
...... is that Government has now handed down ‘law making’ to civilians. Local Authorities can now change the Road Traffic Law on the highway.

Civilians now decide on speed limits and road markings. ......


Yep. Here is an email reply I had from Derbyshire constabulary.

"We did express our concern to Derbyshire County Council when they first proposed a reduction in the speed limit on the A515 from 60mph to 50mph. We felt this limit was unrealistic, bearing in mind that this is an old Roman road - straight with good forward views. The County Council is responding to a government directive which requires speed limits on all 'A' and 'B' class roads to be reviewed by 2011. The A515 is just one of several speed limit reductions that are currently being proposed for a number of roads in the county and are intended to reduce the number of collisions resulting in personal injury. Some we support, others we don't. It is a democratic process - all these proposals have to be publicly advertised prior to implementation and members of the public are entitled to object - the final decision rests with the County Council's Cabinet Committee.

It is the job of the police to enforce speed limits irrespective of whether or not we agree with them and our policy is to give priority to those routes that suffer from a history of speed related injury collisions. You are strongly advised to observe the limit otherwise you run the risk of losing your licence."

Yours sincerely

David Skinner
Traffic Management Officer
Operations Division
Derbyshire Constabulary
Tel: 01773 572215 (ext.) 700 2215 (int.)
e-mail: david.skinner.6875@derbyshire.pnn.police.uk


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 07:55 
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WolvesPeakDriver wrote:
Yep. Here is an email reply I had from Derbyshire constabulary.

"We did express our concern to Derbyshire County Council when they first proposed a reduction in the speed limit on the A515 from 60mph to 50mph. We felt this limit was unrealistic, bearing in mind that this is an old Roman road - straight with good forward views. The County Council is responding to a government directive which requires speed limits on all 'A' and 'B' class roads to be reviewed by 2011. The A515 is just one of several speed limit reductions that are currently being proposed for a number of roads in the county and are intended to reduce the number of collisions resulting in personal injury. Some we support, others we don't.

Interesting that the police are prepared to admit in public that they don't support a speed limit reduction, though.

Anecdotal evidence from other parts of the country such as Oxfordshire suggests they are likely to be less than assiduous in enforcing it.

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