Safe Speed Forums

More directed at "spinny-esque" who quotes the OLD Highway Code as Rule 124/125 are now Rules 146 - but in any case whenever a cyclist get the Highway Code chucked back at him or her (per Krissi's and Andreas' experiences ) - it becomes a "mere code which they do not have to adhere to... yet pedestrians, horse riders and any one on or in any motorised vehicle MUST as their failure to do so upsets lycra louts.

But anyway /.. back to the NEW Highway Code as printed at the beginning of this month and hot topic of various fora for ages



That not going down well weepej whatever?


How's about then this one



Still working up a sweat here?

How's about .. um ..



And Rule 68



Oh.. cyclists - you will also just "lurve"



Linked to this Rule 71




All rules from 59-82 inclusive for cyclists make pretty much decent common sense.

By the way .. Rules 146 -148 apply just as much to a cyclist as to a motor vehicle driver. It does say for ALL ROAD USERS in this section and Rule 67 advises the cyclist to look at the rules for drivers concerning overtaking. In fact this is the COAST rule telling you to blinking well look around you and take note of what's there to AVOID any conflict with anyone.

But sorry forgot.. cyclists really cannot decide for themselves what kind of road user they are.

They want to be part of the traffic.. accepted on the roads. Well fine.. that's OK by me and every other decent soul on the planet here. But then to claim they are also "pedestrians on wheels" .. now that comes across as plain illogical. But then logic from cdertain Gruaniad readers and militiant muesli munchers, who actually believe one of their crank journalist's bizarre claims that everything but a cyclist harms the planet ain't exactly a good selling point as to the benefits of cycling

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Most time I see people cutting corners its so that they can maintain their speed/not have to stop and/or change gear.

Same for people that pull across give way lines; to me its the "I've got to get where I'm going as quick as possible" attitude that is responsible for most of that sort of behaviour.



Given, but on such roads I wouldn't ever be going more than 20 - 25 mph, unless I could absolutely see for certain that there was nothing coming down it, be it a drunk ped in black clothing (and I know the Isle of Wight well, people do walk on it a lot) or a cyclist.

By the way.. I regularly find stories regarding cyclists getting killed out there. Sometimes it is the fault of the driver.. usually hit and run.. usually when caught.. found to be some unlicenced thug in tha throw-away car

At others .. cyclist was riding on dark road.. no lights as was the case with the guy hit in a rural area of Bolton in 2004. Another in the Warburton area of Trafford: rural twisty. Collided with a mobile library. He died. But still dark night.. narrow unlit road with dodgy surface per my kid sister. No lights and dark clothing. Even with dippies - at low speed as this mobile library was - they are not so easily seen until way too late.

Even a red reflector is better than nothing


As for me.. I have Lupines on all the bikes used by my family. I have spent a small fortune on Bikeability courses delivered by a CTC professionally trained cyclist for my own kids and any child we foster as well. Cheap at the price.. £30 for an hour's session with him.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

You drive so as to be able to stop safely on your side of the road in the distance you can see to be clear,.. and this includes the limit points as you approach a bend. You should be looking ahead for all clues anyway. LIGHTS in the dark are one such GOOD CLUE!

But I've been overtaken by cyclists on our twisties up here. One did end up head first in a load of sheep dos when he lost it on one such bend It was classic. I managed to keep a straight face as I administered some First Aid at the time So not always drivers hurtling around then

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Friday 26 October 2007 16:11
Department for Transport (East)

DfT's Be Safe Be Seen campaign - children urged to be bright morning and night


As the clocks go back an hour on Sunday (28th October) the THINK! road safety campaign is reminding parents and children to Be Safe Be Seen as the nights draw in.

Child pedestrian road accidents are most likely to occur between the hours of 3.30pm - 4.00pm. In 2006, 32 children (aged 4-16) a year were killed or seriously injured while walking in the East of England. This shows a 33% decrease from the 1994/98 average of 48.

Road safety mascot "Spike" the hedgehog was at the outdoor store in Cambridge today giving away Be Safe Be Seen stickers, spoke reflectors, bag tags and road safety advice.

Debbie Maith, Road Safety Officer for Cambridgeshire County Council said:
"We want to encourage everyone to make sure they wear bright and reflective clothing while they are out and about this winter. As the clocks go back and the nights draw in it will be more and more difficult for people to see you if you wear something dark. Being bright and seen goes for cyclists too, having lights and reflectors on your bike at this time of year is vital."

Sean Perry, Government Office East Transport Advisor said:
"We would like parents to ensure their children are wearing clothing and accessories that make them more visible as the days become shorter. Bright or fluorescent clothes show up best by day, especially in dull or misty weather. By night, reflective material is best and shows up in car headlights."

Minister for Road Safety, Jim Fitzpatrick said, "Children need to be extra careful on the roads in the winter months. And at the same time, drivers also need to take extra care and look out for children."

In Essex, events will be held with Road Safety Officers and Essex Fire and Rescue Service at supermarkets next week.

Maldon: 29 October, Tesco, 9am-12.30pm
Harlow: 2 November, Sainsbury, 10am -2pm
Chelmsford: 31 October, Asda S.W.F, 9am-12.30pm
Basildon: 30 October, Asda East Gate Centre, 9am-12.30pm

THINK! offers the following tips for parents to help keep children safe and visible on the roads:

* Make sure you can be easily seen, especially at night, on dark days and in bad weather.
* Bright or fluorescent clothes show up best by day, even in dull or misty weather
* In the dark, reflective material is best and shows up in car headlights - remember fluorescent clothing doesn't work after dark. You can put reflective tape on your coat or school bag to help you be seen by drivers.
* It is against the law to cycle at night without a white front light, a red back light and a red reflector at the back, so make sure that your bike is properly equipped and working.
* Cross the road at the safest place possible e.g. zebra, pelican and patrolled crossings. Remember to use the Green Cross Code: Stop, Look, Listen.
* If you're out at night, choose routes that are well-lit by streetlights and cross the road at well-lit places.
* If there is no pavement and you have to walk on the road, always face the oncoming traffic - this is particularly important in poor light or in the dark.
* Find out about 'walking buses' where children walk in groups and are more visible by contacting your child's school or your local council.

-ends-
For more information on how children can stay safe on the roads visit http://www.hedgehogs.gov.uk, full of interactive advice, games and competitions.

Issued on behalf of the Department for Transport by Government News Network East.

Be better not to put the clocks back for the benefit of a handful of Hebredian farmers.

I'd like to know what "genius" came up with this idea. Let's allow all the cycles to come down the side and then spread out across in front of the motor vehicles so that when the lights turn green we have all the slower-moving vehicles stuck in front of the faster ones. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense......

Before the spread of the ASL/green box, cyclists would often filter to the front and take up position across the carriageway anyway, even if it meant crossing the stop line and hanging partly across the junction... At least now with the ASL they still get to do this without having to infringe on the junction, and the green box potentially acts as a warning to other road users to expect a cyclist to slide past them as they're waiting/just about to pull away.

_________________
Chris

The idea behind is that the cyclist gets poll position.. seen and not in danger from the muppet who tried to turn left as they are pedalling to go straight on.

Unfortunately, we all know it does not work out quite that way Personally, I don't like them. I will use primary road position and secondary positioning according to road condition, courtesty to others and my own safety. If I do use them, I keep to a fairly decent primary position - adjusting to secondary as judged appropriate. We don't have that many of these though around where I live.. but we do have them in our larger towns like Penrith and Carlisle. Rarely drive through Kendal as I loathe their one way system - so could not say for sure off memory whether or not they have them. Am sure Ern, Ian and JT will tell me where they are and how efficicient they are (not) some time soon . Keswick's our nearest "town" - and relatively OK for drivers and cyclists.

All the EU countries modified their Highway Codes at the same time as the UK. My wife had to travel to mainland continent for work reasons recently. She returned - predictably with the revised German/French/Swiss Highway Codes. These are not quite like ours: they split to codes for cyclists/pedestrians/ with one separate hand book type one for drivers whereas ours addresses ALL road users in the one volume. I would say their "drivers" version are more akin to "DSA Driving Essentials" which is also a good dip-into for all drivers - especially newly qualifieds.


Anyways the foreign ones for cyclists tells them pretty much the COAST stuff per Franklin and all say that "cyclists are obliged to use all cycle lanes and paths provided. This modal nuance of meaning is a little stronger than "should and ought" to the native speakers of these countries. It stops short of MUST .. but is interpreted as "obligation to use" when we questioned some folk at random in a cafe. I can get away with it better than my wife as I can use the "trying to further my understanding of the lingo" routine. whereas she's much more in tune. (It's only English she has problems with I am sure she switched off English to be Appenzeller blewdy-minded )

Oddly .. see plenty of cycle lanes/shared off-road paths. Comparatively few ASL and more secondary positioning than primary from France and Germany through into Switzerland

However, all the Highway Codes do remind drivers that two wheels are less stable than four wheels and that a slight shock can undermine this all the more. They suggest passing as at least 1.5 metres in all foreign Highway Codes.

They remind drivers that cyclists are not as fast as the cars and to give SPACE and TIME (:lol:) to allow them to feed in when they wish to change directions.

The foreign codes also point out that emergency braking for all two wheelers can result in a fall for the rider and that braking capacity for these two wheeled vehicles (they do refer to them as VEHICLES! ) is not as sharp as that of a motor car and that stopping distances are thus longer for them.

I have to say that whilst the New Highway Code does appear much more concise than previous editions.. the foreign ones reflect a more prescribed system of road use for all. I think they may reduce incidents all the more by virtue of the pure clarity of their Highway Codes

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

But it's swings and roundabouts in some ways though .. isn't it? I recall the BST experiment when I was a kid. Back then though and this was what . late 60s to early 70s.. from primary Prep to first year or so of Senior School - ALL kids wore reflective jackets when going to and from school. We had either reflective orange or yellow kagoul type water proofs which we wore over our dark blazers and gabardine macs as I recall. I think this was uniform as I do remember a series of adverts on the telly as well. But .. there were still plenty of accidents in this morning rush in the dark. My school also finished lessons at 4 pm. In the deep winter of December to January. it was still DARK then. You cannot change the darkest winter months so how we change the clocks.

But up in the Highlands. . sadly further North we are the shorter the days .. even here in Cumbria.

But whether or not we travel in morning dark or evening dark.. we still have some obligation to ensure other folk using the road with us can actually SEE us.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

I don't get it either. When I stop at lights on the bike I wait in line in the centre of the lane and then move over to the left when the traffic moves.

I was just out driving a minute ago and I realised there's more to the lighting issue than was previously mentioned. The human eye/brain is not like a passive video camera. It interprets. When you look at something, only a tiny part is sharply in view and the rest is fuzzy peripheral vision with movement detection. You think you see a full scene ahead, but that's because the brain fills in the rest of the picture from the information last time you looked there. The illusion of seeing the full scene at once is compelling, but it is an illusion as numerous web pages demonstrate.

An unlit object at night moving past could go entirely unnoticed by peripheral vision, and because the brain is still filling in the scene, it looks like nothing is there. If the driver happens to look in that direction he will see it, but in the dark without peripheral vision picking up the movement, the instinct to look that way will not kick in automatically as it would in good light.

A lit, or reflecting object, on the other hand will be easily picked up by peripheral vision and as soon as it is the brain will direct the eyes in that direction instinctively.

So, you just found another reason to drive more slowly and carefully when its dark.

I just came up the A3 tonight in the dark, with added mega rain, spray and fog, do you think you could tell some of the drivers on there about your observation because many, many of them were driving like tw8ts.




I'm not disputing that being lit up at night is a good idea.

What I'm saying is a bad idea is driving at a speed that means you have to swerve for, or could even hit an unlit object because you see it too late.

I (we) understand that; what I'm saying is that, at least in the scenario described, it is unreasonable/impossible for drivers to totally mitigate against it.

Its actually better for the traffic for cyclists to be at the front.

Initial acceleration of a cycle is faster than that of a car, so when I sit in an ASL and the light goes green I'm over the junction and out of the way, not rolling around in the meat grinder behind me, which benefits everybody.

And frankly, where ASLs are most common, in cities and towns, cyclists don't slow you down anyway, you just like to think they do because you're so impatient. In reality, everybody travels at the same average speed, about 12mph.

Not exactly, I was just able to put into words why I already do that. But I also realised that I might miss an unlit object no matter how careful I am, and that it isn't possible to understand why while still clinging to the traditional 'video camera' model of the eye.

I hate the A3 in the dark, it does seem to bring out the worst in some drivers, especially the unlit parts.

Ad hominen is against forum rules.

Please desist!

Sorry, no! I was a mad London cyclist for several years so I should know.
Yes some cyclists can out accelerate most typically accelerating cars but in general cars accelerate faster than cyclists for distances that count. Yes a cyclist can choose a really low gear to get the initial spurt, but it sure as hell won’t last over the length of the junction – unlike a car.

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Assertion that cars move off lights quicker than cycles do, I could only presume it was impatience on Paul_1966's part, apologies.