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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 14:11 
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Rigpig wrote:
RobinXe wrote:
weepej wrote:
RobinXe wrote:
as for adhesion of rubber to tarmac, do you really believe that is more volatile than adhesion of rotor to air? :lol:


No I undersand that, but if you slip in an aircraft you have a chance of recovery as there's often more space to recover.


Two words:

Vortex Ring

Oh, and not much room at treetop height.


Hmm, I'm not sure this is a fair analogy though Robin. Pilots are trained to a far more rigorous programme than a car driver is and you are routinely checked so as to ensure your physical health, knowledge of the regs and ability to control the beast and react correctly to 'situations' are to the required standard are you not? It is in your own interests to brush up on your skills and knowledge else your career goes down the pan or you screw up; the majority of car drivers only find themselves in this situation once they've screwed up.


Aha! Its a perfect analogy, since you've hit the nail on the head. Its not about the speed at which one travels, but the person at the controls, ergo speed is not automatically dangerous, whatever it's numerical value.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 14:44 
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RobinXe wrote:
Aha! Its a perfect analogy


Not its not.

Comparing the incredible levels of training and assessment pilots go through, (levelled, recognised classes of skillsets, constant appraisal) to that which car drivers go through (about seven driving lessons, a written test where if you get one thing wrong you frankly shouldn't be let near a car, culminating in an hour long test in a generally residential environment) is sightly off whack.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 14:48 
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Rigpig wrote:
RobinXe wrote:
weepej wrote:
RobinXe wrote:
as for adhesion of rubber to tarmac, do you really believe that is more volatile than adhesion of rotor to air? :lol:


No I undersand that, but if you slip in an aircraft you have a chance of recovery as there's often more space to recover.


Two words:

Vortex Ring

Oh, and not much room at treetop height.


Hmm, I'm not sure this is a fair analogy though Robin. Pilots are trained to a far more rigorous programme than a car driver is and you are routinely checked so as to ensure your physical health, knowledge of the regs and ability to control the beast and react correctly to 'situations' are to the required standard are you not? It is in your own interests to brush up on your skills and knowledge else your career goes down the pan or you screw up; the majority of car drivers only find themselves in this situation once they've screwed up.


It why we keep saying that the real roaad safety message should be COAST with its ethic of constant learning curve. :popcorn:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 14:48 
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And didn't the whole car saftey thing start when a guy was asked to find out why so many american pilots died young, and he actually discovered the cause was their drive to work, not their job.

He then went on to disprove the people that said that seatbelts wouldn't save lives, as the deceleration would kill you anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stapp


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 15:02 
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weepej wrote:
And didn't the whole car saftey thing start when a guy was asked to find out why so many american pilots died young, and he actually discovered the cause was their drive to work, not their job.

He then went on to disprove the people that said that seatbelts wouldn't save lives, as the deceleration would kill you anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stapp



But this stat would be skewed as accidents on the road did not happen to young pilots alone. :popcorn:

But bizarrely by proving that seatbelt wearing did save lives und that deceleration did not kill you.. then he saying in way that speed alone does not kill as the act of deceleration mean one had to be travelling at speed in the first place :wink: :P

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 15:07 
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Beside . .. road safety start when woman killed by cyclist when bicycles first invented und then again when another woman step off in front of motor car travelling at 10 mph und get killed in the early days of motoring. :popcorn:

AA formed as protest about police officers fining the early drivers for driving above 15 mph too. :popcorn: as it early discovered to be a nice little earner for achieving very little in term of actual safety margins :popcorn:

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(& other good causes..)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 15:31 
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weepej wrote:
I have no problem with speed limits myself, and those that do, and choose to break them, have already made one agressive step IMO.


Then you have a very strange notion of what aggressive means. It is possible to exceed speed limits by large margins, and be extremely considerate towards other road users whilst doing so.

Best wishes all,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 16:04 
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weepej wrote:
RobinXe wrote:
Aha! Its a perfect analogy


Not its not.

Comparing the incredible levels of training and assessment pilots go through, (levelled, recognised classes of skillsets, constant appraisal) to that which car drivers go through (about seven driving lessons, a written test where if you get one thing wrong you frankly shouldn't be let near a car, culminating in an hour long test in a generally residential environment) is sightly off whack.

Just a reminder that we were talking about Med Hughes's driving, a Police trained driver, and whether HIS driving at 90mph was safe or dangerous.
YOU POSTED:
weepej wrote:
Suicidal probably, and if anybody else was around possibly homicidal.

thus implying that he posed an enormous risk to his own life.
Does EVERY driver above 60, 70 or 80 mph risk being branded SUICIDAL simply due to their speed?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 17:58 
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RobinXe wrote:
weepej wrote:
RobinXe wrote:
as for adhesion of rubber to tarmac, do you really believe that is more volatile than adhesion of rotor to air? :lol:


No I undersand that, but if you slip in an aircraft you have a chance of recovery as there's often more space to recover.


Two words:

Vortex Ring


What's the practical risk from vortex ring condition with the helicopters you fly Robin? Does it extend beyond settling with power?

The only time that I have ever put model helicopters into vortex ring condition has been when settling with power.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 21:58 
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TripleS wrote:
weepej wrote:
I have no problem with speed limits myself, and those that do, and choose to break them, have already made one agressive step IMO.


Then you have a very strange notion of what aggressive means. It is possible to exceed speed limits by large margins, and be extremely considerate towards other road users whilst doing so.

Best wishes all,
Dave.


Yeah, but you'v already chosen to break the law.

Not a good start in my book.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 22:13 
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weepej wrote:
Yeah, but you'v already chosen to break the law.

Are you claiming that you never break speed limits, then? Not even a teeny weeny bit?

If so, are you a liar or a menace? (see sig.)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 22:41 
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PeterE wrote:
weepej wrote:
Yeah, but you'v already chosen to break the law.

Are you claiming that you never break speed limits, then? Not even a teeny weeny bit?

If so, are you a liar or a menace? (see sig.)


I do sometimes catch myself over the limit by a small margin, but if I'm above it my foot is off the accelerator or over the brake or on the brake and I'm slowing down.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 22:56 
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weepej wrote:
Yeah, but you'v already chosen to break the law.

Not a good start in my book.

It's not like people actually want to break the law, the real problem is how it is used/abused. Choosing to exceed an unreasonably, needlessly low limit, in a safe and considerate manner can hardly be considered an aggressive act.
If you disagree then please explain how.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 23:14 
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smeggy wrote:
weepej wrote:
Yeah, but you'v already chosen to break the law.

Not a good start in my book.

It's not like people actually want to break the law, the real problem is how it is used/abused. Choosing to exceed an unreasonably, needlessly low limit, in a safe and considerate manner can hardly be considered an aggressive act.

I also don't think people actually make a deliberate choice to exceed the speed limit - it's not as if there's a stop on the accelerator pedal you have to push through. It's more a case of people choosing what they judge to be a safe and reasonable speed and then noticing (or not) that it is above the limit.

Some time ago we had a thread entitled "Why do people speed?" but I can't locate it at present.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 23:16 
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smeggy wrote:
weepej wrote:
Yeah, but you'v already chosen to break the law.

Not a good start in my book.

It's not like people actually want to break the law, the real problem is how it is used/abused. Choosing to exceed an unreasonably, needlessly low limit, in a safe and considerate manner can hardly be considered an aggressive act.
If you disagree then please explain how.


Well, you know I believe most people flout the law by travelling at a speed above it that they think means thy can get back to a speed just above it if they need to.

Choosing to travel above the speed limit is certainly a statement.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 23:46 
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malcolmw wrote:
hjeg2 wrote:
[Here's a flaw. (Unless of course you have evidence that there is a conspiracy in place, rather than simply the Government trying to find the cheapest - and therefore most acceptable to the right-wingers on here - option of 'policing' the roads.)
There appears to be quite a spectrum of political standpoints on this forum.


From what I've seen apart from a couple of people including me, most people on here are right-wing.

malcolmw wrote:
Criticising the current Government is not necessarily derived from being either "left" or "right" wing.


No but other than a small number of people with generally left-wing to centre-left views who are also liberal, most of those criticising the current Government are right-wing.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 23:48 
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weepej wrote:
Well, you know I believe most people flout the law by travelling at a speed above it that they think means thy can get back to a speed just above it if they need to.

Choosing to travel above the speed limit is certainly a statement.

So it isn't necessarily an 'aggressive step'?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 23:55 
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Choosing to travel at a posted speed limit, despite prevailing road / weather / traffic conditions allowing a speed greater than that posted on the side of the road is also a statement.

weepej, you're gonna have to lower your trousers a little more; we can't quite hear what you're trying to say :P

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 00:23 
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hjeg2 wrote:
From what I've seen apart from a couple of people including me, most people on here are right-wing.

How do you define "right-wing"?

Is a strong belief in individual freedom "right-wing"?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 01:22 
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weepej wrote:
RobinXe wrote:
Aha! Its a perfect analogy


Not its not.

Comparing the incredible levels of training and assessment pilots go through, (levelled, recognised classes of skillsets, constant appraisal) to that which car drivers go through (about seven driving lessons, a written test where if you get one thing wrong you frankly shouldn't be let near a car, culminating in an hour long test in a generally residential environment) is sightly off whack.



Although, wasn't this post about a senior traffic cop who should have had rather more training than the average driver anyway?


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