Safe Speed Forums

I don't go into death-metal clubs, because I find the music and attitudes objectionable. There is no evidence that those pose any less threat to my health and longevity than passive smoking.

Non-smoking pubs were available to non-smokers who felt strongly enough to shun smoking pubs. If there was so much demand for them then market forces dictate that there would have been even more!

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"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

If you read my post again - and the Freedom2Choose website - you'll see that no-one is asking you to "suck down lungfuls of smoke". Pubs could easily have been allowed to set up a separate smoking room with a good extraction system.

This would have suited just about everyone. But no, it involves freedom of choice, something our lords and masters cannot tolerate.

However, I take your earlier point about "a lovely non-smoker's section with a very powerful air conditioning system... that sucked all the smoke from the smoking section out through the non-smoking section!"

The answer is to get it right, not ban it.

As a socially considerate person, yet an ardent non-smoker, I would have fully supported that proposal. Instead nanny insisted it knew best and went completely overboard with their needlessly overbearing policy. Now thanks to them we're all worse off (flown in a plane recently?)

Been to a pub just as they open recently? The smell from the toilets is delightful.

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Prepare to be Judged

You know, you are right about the smell from the loos. I'd never thought about it but I was in the pub the other lunchtime and almost felt queasy due to the smell of the pine toilet blocks.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

hmmm, whats nicer....bit of smoke or piss, sweaty armpits and stale food.

I know what I would plump for!

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"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

Oh come on. Aircraft have been no-smoking for years.

(BTW, mustn't say "plane" when you mean "aircraft" - Robin will smack your wrists.)

Only when I'm in pedant mode!

I got lucky there then although if I were in pedant more I would say that I was technically correct (timewise) - but I won't

I'm sure you realise what I meant by it.

Thank you, Smeggy. That is what two-thirds of the population told the government in its own surveys (see ONS polls), yet somehow our spinmeisters managed to turn it into "a substantial majority want smoking banned in public places" - then built their case on the back of it to include pubs.

This is the same brand of deception Safespeed has been trying so hard to expose in recent years. And make no mistake: It is happening all around us, every day.

Where? Oh, yeah! There was one non-smoking pub in the whole of Shropshire. It was often too packed to get in to.

Of course, had the licensed trade done what it promised for years -got effective air conditioning systems in to their premises- then the ban would probably not been implemented in the way it was.

But greedy pubcos kept pulling internal walls down and getting rid of smoking rooms as "old fashioned", so non-smoking sections in pubs failed as the smoke refused to obey the no smoking signs put up.

And if passive smoking is not harmful how come non-smokers including myself all developed smoker's coughs when we worked in an office that allowed smoking?

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

Yes. They could have done. But they didn't. Why? They could not be bothered.

Odd how they can bother to whine well after the ban on smoking was introduced.

But that's the problem isn't it?

Everyone in the industry could have done something, but they all thought it was up to someone else. And when nobody did it, everyone acted really startled when the government said: "Sorry, time gentlemen, please!"

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

Do we need to cover the difference between anecdotal and empirical evidence again?

Not odd at all. They were not given a chance to put their houses in order. There has never been any legal requirement for separation or ventilation yet, bang, half their customers are suddenly turned out onto the street.

Naturally a pub-owner isn't going to spend money on modifications if he has a successful business and is working within the law. I well understand your point about badly-deigned ventilation; a lot of it is down to stupidity. In one pub I used to visit regularly they had a large extractor fan set in the same wall as the main door a couple of feet away! Of course the air short-circuited, leaving most of the fug inside untroubled by the presence of an extractor.

A compromise solution - increased market choice or segregation and improved ventilation backed, if necessary, by legislation - was never even given a chance. And the amount of parliamentary debate devoted to the most socially divisive law in living memory was quite disgraceful. Parliament should not just swallow reports by self-promoting medics; it has a duty to take in the wider social implications of a highly intrusive law like this.

The misinformation about secondhand smoke has reached such a pitch that we now see supposedly intelligent people breaking into a blind panic at the sight of someone lighting up in the open air 20 feet away.

Has it not occurred to them that, for the last century at least, whole generations lived perfectly healthy lives in a fog of tobacco in the office, cinema, train, bus, pub and perhaps at home too?

Sorry, I forgot. Secondhand smoke kills. End of discussion.

The amount of any parliamentary debate nowadays is sickening in its absence.

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Prepare to be Judged

It's not so much pubs as bingo halls who are feeling the brunt of the smoking ban. It's very possible that bingo clubs will soon be a thing of the past directly due to this legislation which did not exclude private clubs.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

My view on smoking in pubs, restaurants, and so on is simple: It is a private establishment, and so long as smoking remains a legal activity per se, then it should be entirely up to the owner/management as to whether smoking is allowed or not.

Nobody is being forced to go to that establishment and sit in the smoke; he does so of his own free will. If you don't like it, you are free to go elsewhere, or even to try to persuade the owner how changing his policy might be good for business.

Is it?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Absolutely. They're falling like ninepins. And the great tragedy is that bingo was, for many older people who can't afford lavish entertainment, one of their few social pleasures.

In our pub there were a couple of old pipe-smokers - both war veterans - who loved coming out two or three nights a week for a pint and a chat. Now they don't go any more. The government has snatched their last little bit of enjoyment from them.

These old boys risked their lives to save us from tyranny. Last time I saw one of them, he was utterly bewildered by a British law which has robbed him of his one simple pleasure. He will just fade away at home now.

The fragrant Hewitts and Jowells should be utterly ashamed of themselves as they push their puritan agenda on the rest of us, defying public opinion and tearing up what little remains of society's fabric.

PS Smeggy: Yes, it is a private establishment in terms of property rights. An owner-occupied pub, for instance, is just that. The landlord's licence is what permits him to serve alcohol. It can be revoked if he breaks the law, but it doesn't make the establishment any less private.