Safe Speed Forums

Guys, look what I found here:
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/ru ... chive.html

So between '98 and '06 motoring costs rose 7.2%, less than the rate of inflation: a drop in real terms! Yet still you'll contrive to interpret your good fortune as an affront.

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Oh for goodness sake - I did put a disclaimer at the top of my post asking you to please read and digest before hammering away on your bloody keyboard. Your post is stupid. VED Voluntary? What? It's not Voluntary at all. If you have Band A - it's free, but as I point out you have to fork out for a brand new tiny crappy electric car.

I state M6 is voluntary - or did you just not read any of my post?

London CC is voluntary... err, not really - some people have no choice but to drive into London (and I do know there is PT, but some people genuinely couldn't get by taking that due to business needs!!!)


Not at all pointless. You wanted a comparison of fuel price rises. It's gone up 16% in 1 year. That's just a fact.


I already stated my parking figures were local to me. Again I suspect you saw 16%, 42.5%, 50% and went "OH MY GOD NO, HE'S GOT FIGURES TO BACK UP ARGUMENTS - I BETTER DISPELL THEM WITHOUT READING"


You'd say, would you? So after asking for figures to back up complaints. Claiming you'd be open to changing your mind if proven wrong. You've then gone ahead, made up some stuff about VED not being compulsary, ignored the fuel price rise with some strange reasoning about usage and pointed out (even though I clearly stated it myself) that parking may well in fact go down in cost for a very few people, and then 'you'd say' that it's 3.5%... on your estimate. You clearly don't drive, despite saying you do, you keep referring to motorists as 'you' - so either you have a car but haven't touched it, get free tax/parking & fuel or you're just a little ker-razy.


London bus prices (for those with oyster) are going down from £1 to 90p next year. Why would I be gnashing over those journies I take by bus?
Tube fares are rising at less than inflation (so far less than 16% or any of the VED % increases)
National train fares again are rising by about 4.8% on average (lower than VED and Fuel)


Yet more non-reading. 2006 was evidently cheaper, as was 2002 when I started... I don't get it. I said READ before hammering away, you just didn't.

I've just given you figures for the 06-08 increases which would explain why everyone is now so up in arms.

Two more things....

As for accusing everyone of complaining, if you skip on back to page 1, you'll see the person who started this thread is in fact you. A thread about motoring costs had not been created until you came along trying to piss everyone if by ignoring real world knowledge and now even actual facts.

And finally... "7.2%: A drop in REAL terms." I love how this phrase has been coined over the last few years by a labour government attempting to convince everyone prices are falling. A 7.2% rise, is not a drop in any terms. It's a 7.2% rise. RELATIVE to someone who has experienced a 10% wage rise in that time, it's less of their income, but it's not in a drop in any way shape of form. You are blinding yourself with nonsense political phrases to try and substantiate your poor argument. A rise is NEVER a fall, unless you're a politician or you're a liar.

Just in case you missed it with all the spam flying about:

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that's your response to all of the above? Honestly, you might as well have just waved a white flag. tar tar, I'm off for Christmas. Enjoy yourself strange little person

Which the residents had before, at no cost to the council, due to the lack of admin required.


There are an awful lot of assumptions in there.
1) You assume there is a parking space for every pass sold. Highly unlikely if it is well publicised(sp). In all probability there will be more passes than spaces.
2) You assume there will be a space available when required.
3) You assume that other councils will honour the pass on their spaces. Extremely unlikely.
4) You assume that residents will only travel inside the council that they live in.

In reality the pass is a lottery ticket. You may be able to park where you want to at the time you want to, but you are not guarenteed a space. If you go to an area not covered by your pass you will have to pay for a space. So the alleged subsidy does not exist for the vast majority of vehicle owners.

Entirely pointless.
RAC gives a 2006 average cost of running a car of £5538.99, of which fuel costs were £1112.34. Will you permit that fuel costs were near enough 20% of overall motoring costs, to ease the sums?
So: 16% of 20% means the rise in fuel prices has increased the overall annual cost of owning and running the average car by 3.2%. Need I run through that again?
Let's do VED. For our RAC average motorist, VED accounts for 2.3% of overall motoring costs. Figures you've provided (thanks) show an average rise - across all bands - in VED of 22.5%. Crippling! Yet this has increased the average motorist's annual costs by (insert drum roll here) @0.5%.
So these ratchettings of fuel and VED costs have raised the average annual cost of owning and running a car by a grotesque 3.7%. And our Govt office of national Statistics said.. 3.5%. It must be a conspiracy!
Parking? No, it's not a lottery ticket boxers, it's a year's parking pass in municipal car parks county wide. You wouldn't say of a free ticket to the men's Wimbledon singles final that it was a 'lottery', because it wouldn't also admit you to watch the footie at White Hart Lane. Or perhaps you would. Enumerating your points like that is v impressive. Perhaps had you used bullets I'd've missed that you have bugger all to say.

So, who's responsible for SS press releases now? I'm hoping to see the following strapline buried at the bottom of page 7 of the Maidstone Gazette: "Rises in motoring costs fail to keep up with rate of inflation, grouse angry safespeeders."

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Will the last person to leave please turn out the lights?

Would you care to break down that £5539 fully? Would you also care to concede that its not 2006, and hasn't been for almost exactly a year?

No.
But the RAC will. Go here:
http://www.rac.co.uk/web/knowhow/owning ... lts_q1_06/

I've made clear that I'm addressing claimed hikes in motoring costs since 2006. Try again, chaffmeister.

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As with most surveys nowadays it depends on who you want to believe. According to a report by Sainsbury’s Bank in September 06, motoring went up by 7.2%, that was 16 months ago.

edited: to add 06 after September.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Handy! So lets chuck out the finance, for those that own their cars outright, as I'm sure most here do, and the RAC membership, which is only on there because its the RAC site. Depreciation figures assume new cars are being purchased, and that they are subject to RAB accounting throughout their lifetime, and as such is also not exactly a 'real-terms' expense. It is also non-linear, and as such is inappropriate for a year-to-year comparison.

What do we have left? £1953.10, so well over 50% is already fuel, in real-terms! Calculated for approximately 12k miles per year, which is quite a modest useage in my experience! So, theres now a 9.1% increase at least!

Incidentally, the table also omits tolls, congestion charges, and fines, all of which are pertinent to an average figure on the cost of motoring, and are real-terms examples of an increase in costs.

Why stop there?
Let's chuck out everything that doesn't support our bruised sense of entitlement and prerogative (we're drivers for Christ's sake!).
Where does that leave us? We're a put upon and hard done by minority who never did anyone any harm.
Whingers? Nous?
"At least"? Caramba! Almost up to the rate of inflation over the last 30 years. Were we to accept your playing fast and loose with figures - and we don't - you're just on par. And still you whinge!

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Well, I don't pay finance on either of my cars, one of them could not depreciate by £2.5k in a year, because it was purchased for about a fifth of that, and the other is appreciating, being a rare classic. I do more than 12k miles per year. Fast and loose eh?

Surely fast and loose is cherry picking only costs incurred by those who have bought new cars on finance in their first year! Oh, and they're all RAC members. They don't pay for parking, or tolls/congestion charge, or fines. Totally average then!

Almost up to the rate of inflation over the last 30 years in one year, you missed that bit.

Don't think anyone is fooled, your accusations at others do not mask your own glaring errors!

You can afford to run 2 cars?
You poor wee put upon poppet.
Hey! I've a suggestion. Why don't you all just grow up?

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What a grown-up rebuttal, well done!

This thread is fast approaching not being a discussion of the issues any more.

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I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

See he's still reeling you all in............

So, er, how many motors ought I to be able to afford to run at artificially suppressed costs before it becomes necessary for me to gripe?

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Will the last person to leave please turn out the lights?