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 Post subject: Big Brother Britain
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:53 
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Big Brother Britain: How much do you earn? Are you gay? Town Hall chiefs have been ordered to find out
By STEVE DOUGHTY - More by this author »

Last updated at 00:37am on 21st December 2007

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Every town hall has been ordered to send out surveys demanding local residents' personal information and opinions.

The forms will ask householders to give details of their children, mortgage, ethnic background, religion and sexual orientation.

Civil rights campaigners yesterday called the survey 'intrusive and very sinister', pointing out that any information handed over will not be kept confidential.

Ministers have even given instructions that local councils must try to disguise their involvement in the survey to avoid attracting criticism.

And they have ruled that the questioning must be paid for out of council tax and carried out every two years.

The New Place Survey - which is expected to be launched next autumn after trials in the spring - is likely to cost at least £15million by 2012.

According to a consultation paper distributed by Communities Secretary Hazel Blears, the justification for the survey is that it will let the Government know if councils are hitting scores of new targets imposed on them in the last six months.

But the questionnaire does not ask about householders' attitudes to libraries, rubbish collections or schools - all of which are the responsibility of councils.

Instead, it solicits information on whether people think local parents are controlling their children's behaviour properly and whether different ethnic communities in the area are getting on with each other.

Questions on ethnicity and sexuality are intended to be used in Government initiatives to promote greater numbers of local councillors from minority groups.

But the demand that individuals and families supply a huge raft of personal details for the survey comes at a time of deepening concern about the State's thirst for ever-greater amounts of private information - and worries over how that information is stored and used.

Town halls are already assembling a database called ContactPoint which will contain details of every child in the country, including information on their health and education.

Yet more vast amounts of personal information will be stored on the NHS and identity card databases.

Whitehall has given no details on what proportion of the population will receive demands for information.

But many thousands in each borough are likely to get forms to ensure the target numbers of replies is reached.

Unlike the ten-yearly national census, it will not be legally compulsory to fill in and return the form.

However, those who do not comply are likely to be sent multiple reminders.

Information provided for the new council survey will not be protected by basic confidentiality rules.

The Department for Communities and Local Government has told town halls there are no guarantees of privacy and that personal data gathered in the questionnaires can be disclosed to third parties.

Although respondents are not asked for their names and addresses on the forms, town halls are likely to keep this information with the completed survey data on their computer systems.

Local Government minister John Healey said the New Place Survey "will be a significant tool for councils and local agencies".

But Tory local government spokesman Eric Pickles said: "This is astounding.

"Labour are obsessed with rolling out survey after survey to cover-up their incompetence."

Matthew Elliott of the Taxpayers' Alliance said the operation was a "pointless waste of money".

"Councils should be trying to make people's lives better by reducing the burden of taxes and improving crumbling services, not poking their noses into our lives," he added.

Christine Melsom of the council tax protest group Is It Fair? said: "This is highly intrusive and very sinister.

"I can think of an awful lot of other things they could do with the money."


Cheeky barstewards!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 13:23 
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Daily Mail wrote:
...the questioning must be paid for out of council tax and carried out every two years.

No indication of when it's likely to start - but there'll be, at most, only one before this government is on the unemployed register...and with no compulsion we can safely ignore it anyway


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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Britain
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 15:14 
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Dixie wrote:
Unlike the ten-yearly national census, it will not be legally compulsory to fill in and return the form.

Yet.

As we know, most councils demand ever-increasing council tax (above inflation), and many are determined to make as much revenue as possible from "decriminalised" parking (how lovely that term must have initially sounded to drivers). But the service doesn't get any better, it gets worse if anything (e.g. fortnightly rubbish collections, another "green" measure which is actually done for different reasons, and anyway, except for cans, recycling doesn't make sense), and the extra money they make instead goes on pointless things like this survey, as well as highly paid non-jobs like Climate Change Handwringing & Spin Officer and Safety-Related Bureaucracy Creation Consultant (not to mention Pointless Survey Writer). And countless other things of course, like road "safety" projects which are really just about restricting the motorist (isn't it strange how no "safety improvements" ever make things more pleasant, rather than less so, for the motorist anymore?) Some of these are requested by NIMBYs, but some are just dreamt up by councillors (who may even have undeclared vested interests, e.g. family living nearby), and in any case it's far from obvious to me that obstructive "traffic calming" measures are actually helping any road user.

People would be somewhat less irritated about all the money that councils take if they saw evidence of it being spent effectively. After all, higher taxes leading to more services is fundamentally what some people want. But higher taxes leading to nothing useful isn't what anyone wants, except the councils.

Talking of the parking revenue scam, I was thinking that maybe things would improve if the government changed council funding in the same way as scamera partnership funding, i.e. gave each council a fixed grant and didn't allow them to keep the PCN money anymore. Sadly I think it's the only way that council parking enforcement will ever be about keeping traffic moving (and minimising the very congestion that the council itself currently creates) and so on, rather than giving out as many tickets as possible. It's obvious that it's just too tempting for them (and their parasite contractors, such as NCP, whose car parks everyone here should boycott) to abuse the system at the moment.

Pretty much every large town has now jumped on the decriminalised bandwagon and AFAIK revenue-raising is always the priority, which is reflected on the ground, and also when the councils unreasonably reject appeals (even though they know they don't have a case) in the hope that the person will back down and pay up (some are worse than others with this). At the very least I'd like to see such councils penalised for backing down at the last minute (as they do when they don't want a precedent set at adjudication), because at the moment they have nothing to lose by holding out until then, and some councils seem to do it every single time. If they back down before adjudication, they've been trying to get money which they knew they weren't entitled to, so they need to be "encouraged" to consider appeals properly. The current practice is a mean-spirited and dishonest way of taking advantage of frightened old ladies and the like, who know they're in the right but just want to make it go away, partly because they're worried that the verdict will unfairly go against them, and who can blame them?

So in summary: many councils take too much, don't give enough back, and a lot of what they do give back is pointless. Every year the situation gets that little bit worse. It doesn't really seem to matter which party is elected. Since all this happens so much, perhaps the problem lies with the general system. Maybe there should be sweeping changes to the current tiered system, and a review of who gets what powers, taxes, etc. Councils should be rewarded for satisfying people; so perhaps an unloaded survey goes round asking people if they're happy, and higher scores lead to increased pay for councillors and some officers maybe. (If it led to more funding then people would just put high scores regardless.) People should get more of a say locally; I like the idea of American-style local ordinances, placed on the ballot by members of the public and then voted on. I wouldn't really know what else to suggest, but I think we do need radical changes to make the whole thing more public-friendly, give them value for money, and make them actually like councils (at the moment "council" seems to be a byword for "incompetence").

We should however wait until the current clowns are out of government, otherwise they'll undoubtedly make the whole thing worse. (Please Tories, (sorry, "Dave"), you're still too similar to the current lot...start talking sense now and you might just have enough people behind you by 2009/10...you've got an open goal and have never had so many ridiculous Labour policies to shoot down in flames!)

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 15:29 
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:clap:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 18:00 
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I can see an epidemic of spoof answers. Like the meteoric rise of Jedi as a religion at the last census.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 22:30 
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We've had a couple of highly intrusive forms sent from school recently. One was from a council funded reading initiative (or some such bollox) which asked if my wife and I were smokers among other completely irrelevant information. Most of it was to be shared with "other databases".

I refused to fill them in and told the school why in no uncertain terms.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 00:07 
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Homer wrote:
was from a council funded reading initiative (or some such bollox) which asked if my wife and I were smokers among other completely irrelevant information.


The "authorities" seem to be fixated with this. When I recently went to see my doctor (for the first time in three years), one of his first questions was "Do you smoke?".

I got the distinct impression that if I went into the surgery with my lower leg shattered and hanging on by a couple of tendons, the first question would be "Are you a smoker?".

("Yes, Doctor, and that's obviously why my leg's broken. It's all my fault - I'll go away and die quietly of gangrene somewhere. Sorry to trouble you".)

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Last edited by Yokel on Sat Dec 22, 2007 00:11, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 00:10 
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Homer wrote:
I refused to fill them in and told the school why in no uncertain terms.


:clap: :clap: :clap:

That's the way to treat the b*****s!!! Good man! :drink:

(But how many sheeple would meekly fill in the forms?)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 01:53 
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Yokel wrote:
Homer wrote:
was from a council funded reading initiative (or some such bollox) which asked if my wife and I were smokers among other completely irrelevant information.


The "authorities" seem to be fixated with this. When I recently went to see my doctor (for the first time in three years), one of his first questions was "Do you smoke?".

I got the distinct impression that if I went into the surgery with my lower leg shattered and hanging on by a couple of tendons, the first question would be "Are you a smoker?".

("Yes, Doctor, and that's obviously why my leg's broken. It's all my fault - I'll go away and die quietly of gangrene somewhere. Sorry to trouble you".)


Actually, it would be a VERY sensible question to ask if your leg was hanging on by a couple of tendons.

When my uncle required surgery we nearly lost him as his smoking interfered with the anaesthetics. He died several months later, from a smoking-related disease. I still miss him as he was a top bloke.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 08:43 
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Homer wrote:
We've had a couple of highly intrusive forms sent from school recently. One was from a council funded reading initiative (or some such bollox) which asked if my wife and I were smokers among other completely irrelevant information. Most of it was to be shared with "other databases".

I refused to fill them in and told the school why in no uncertain terms.

My eldest (11) came home from school about a month ago with pretty much the same thing, only this was dressed up as "homework".

Questions such as name, address, date of birth, etc didn't raise too much of an eyebrow (the school knows those details about him anyway).
What did get me was questions such as...

"Are your parents married?"
"How long have they been together?"
"Do your parents work?"
"If they do work, how much do they earn?" (yup, that was really on there)
"Do your parents drink alcohol?" (WTF is that to do with anybody?)


I made a point of taking him to school on the day this "homework" was due in to have a word with his teacher about it, unfortunately there was a bit of a queue as it transpired that a very high percentage of other disgruntled parents had got there before me and the teacher was struggling for answers :lol:

Somehow I don't think the school will be trying that one again too quickly.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:02 
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Homer wrote:
We've had a couple of highly intrusive forms sent from school recently. One was from a council funded reading initiative (or some such bollox) which asked if my wife and I were smokers among other completely irrelevant information. Most of it was to be shared with "other databases".

I refused to fill them in and told the school why in no uncertain terms.


I wonder if the schools are taking a back-hander for providing reaserch data.

When my wife applied for an NHS job they wanted to know not only her ethnic origin (Irish is an ethnic group) but also her sexual preferences :o (Lesbian etc)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 14:47 
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Don't forget that one of Hitler's first initiatives was to get the kids to spy on their parents.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 19:12 
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Actually.. Many moons ago...

Quote:
I got the distinct impression that if I went into the surgery with my lower leg shattered and hanging on by a couple of tendons, the first question would be "Are you a smoker?".


I got my right heel in the back wheel of my speedway bike.... which obviously bit me hard...

I staggered into Casualty to be bluntly told....

"Take a seat"

which obviously took me aback !!

So I replied... "Do you have a spanner please"

Blank stare from receptionist...

"Well its bolted to the floor.. If you want me to take the bloody seat your going to have to lend me a spanner".

She replied.. "Its a slow night... You wont be waiting long."

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Britain
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 03:12 
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bombus wrote:
So in summary: many councils take too much, don't give enough back, and a lot of what they do give back is pointless. Every year the situation gets that little bit worse. It doesn't really seem to matter which party is elected.


bombus wrote:
We should however wait until the current clowns are out of government, otherwise they'll undoubtedly make the whole thing worse. (Please Tories, (sorry, "Dave"), you're still too similar to the current lot...start talking sense now and you might just have enough people behind you by 2009/10...you've got an open goal and have never had so many ridiculous Labour policies to shoot down in flames!)


Please don't take this Personally Bombus, because it's NOT. I have included your comment on ALL parties in my quote to show this.......

But!..............Whatever makes people in Britain think that some Political Knight in shining armour is going to enter the fray and dispel all of your pet hates when the truth is that THEY (anyone elected) has precious little room to move within the confines of the Globalist Adgenda (nay...Dictat!) and will in all probability....do nothing!

"The poor must pay for the poor!..............We, the Globalist rich, will NOT pay! (Thou shall NOT tax the Mega rich) Find the money for "Society" somewhere else!..............or else your economy is Toast!"

Test out this Hypothesis against anything you like.....

Now ask yourself again why it is that your Gov/Council/Agency/Partnership is looking for scam derived money from you.

Why have all the western world Nations now got a "National Lottery"? Are the Mega Rich suddenly going to bet on a 14 million to 1 bet? NO......the poor will, and the money will go ......where?

Why have we got multi million pound adverts on TV to raise the same amount from the poor when the Mega Rich could take the same amount from their back pocket and never notice that it's gone

Don't forget that The Big Brother Corporation (BBC) will tell you only what they want you to know, whatever "party?" is in power.

And as far as Newspapers go:................Well, the "Daily Worker" is the only opposing view that I can think of.. All the rest are owned by International Globalist "Bilderburger attendees" not ever likely to reveal the "truth" to the likes of you!....

They only serve to divert your attention by Photographs of naked ladies, Football, X Factor, Strictly come Dancing, Soap stars (whatever they are) I'm a celebrity(with a small c) Get me out'a here to a BIG "C".....Opium for the masses type tripe! Oh! I forgot the Crossword!

That's why I never buy one.

[sigh] Have a nice day Bombus........sorry!
:)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 15:18 
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R1Nut wrote:
Don't forget that one of Hitler's first initiatives was to get the kids to spy on their parents.


And one of the points raised in 1984

---

As for schools taking backhanders, I'm not entirely sure it'd be the schools. Remember, Crapita have over 90% of schools on board with their systems, I imagine all this new info would be stored on one of their IT systems (probably provided by crapita) and what IT company in the country is more in bed with the government than any other?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 15:29 
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mmltonge wrote:
and what IT company in the country is more in bed with the government than any other?


EDS?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 15:49 
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haha. ok - which IT companies are most in bed with the gvnt? there are a few, but with regards to schools - only one winner


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 17:51 
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mmltonge wrote:
R1Nut wrote:
Don't forget that one of Hitler's first initiatives was to get the kids to spy on their parents.


And one of the points raised in 1984

---

As for schools taking backhanders, I'm not entirely sure it'd be the schools. Remember, Crapita have over 90% of schools on board with their systems, I imagine all this new info would be stored on one of their IT systems (probably provided by crapita) and what IT company in the country is more in bed with the government than any other?


Capita has few it systems.
They rent space from other companies.
It [info] is probably stored in the states.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 21:30 
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I can't wait for these forms to arrive! I really want the council to know that I am a catholic Pakistani lesbian. My "partner", who is a one legged Zambian jew happens to speak a couple of rather obscure southern Philippine dialects (I have no idea why) and will be filling in the forms in a combination of them.

I'm sure no further forms will be sent out, provided enough of us get into the "spirit" of the thing :lol:

Happy New Year everyone.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 22:21 
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Maaarrghk! wrote:
I can't wait for these forms to arrive! I really want the council to know that I am a catholic Pakistani lesbian. My "partner", who is a one legged Zambian jew happens to speak a couple of rather obscure southern Philippine dialects (I have no idea why) and will be filling in the forms in a combination of them.

I'm sure no further forms will be sent out, provided enough of us get into the "spirit" of the thing :lol:


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Hear, hear! Strangle the b******s in their own red tape!

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