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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 13:32 
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Passenger fury as rail fares rise by up to 15 per cent despite delays, overcrowding and poor service
By RAY MASSEY - More by this author »

Last updated at 22:44pm on 30th December 2007

Millions of rail passengers will be hit with "rip-off" New Year fare hikes of up to 15 per cent.

Despite delays, overcrowding and poor service, train operators will increase fares on Wednesday.

The rises have been condemned by passenger groups, MPs and unions as "disgraceful, unfair and unjustified".

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Critics say they are designed to price people off overcrowded trains.

The increases follow a festive period marked by a shortage of cheaper advance tickets and disruption, delays and limited, if any, service due to repairs on much of the network.

But the rail companies have defended their performance, with Virgin Trains, whose services have been severely affected by engineering work, accusing Network Rail of "bullying" the operating companies.

Some of the worst performing train operators are imposing the largest cost increases.

Even fares regulated by the Government will go up by an inflation-busting 4.8 per cent.

Passengers face at least seven more years of hikes as part of Transport Secretary Ruth Kelly's strategy to make customers fund three-quarters of the cost of the railways by 2014. Fares currently fund half the cost.

Unregulated fares, such as cheap day-returns, long-distance open and some advance fares, will go up by an average of 5.4 per cent.

But that figure disguises hikes of up to 15 per cent on some routes, say watchdogs.

The cost of a weekly season ticket from Hayes, in Kent, to London will rise by 14.5 per cent, from £24.80 to £28.50, and from Bexleyheath, Kent, 13 per cent from £25.10 to £28.50.

Unregulated fares will rise by an average of 7 per cent on CrossCountry and East Midlands Trains routes, 6.8 per cent on routes run by the One train company, 6.1 per cent on First Great Western, and 4.3 per cent on South West Trains.

Regulated fares, including season tickets, savers and standard dayreturns, will go up by an average of 4.8 per cent, though some will be higher.

The rise will be 6.8 per cent on Southeastern and 5 per cent on First TransPennine Express routes. Increases on some individual routes will be higher still.

The Association of Train Operating Companies defended the rises. Director general George Muir said: "We need the revenue from fares to pay for investment in the railway for the benefit of passengers."

But fares watchdog Passenger Focus said the cost of an annual season-ticket from Canterbury in Kent to London will increase by 11.1 per cent from £3,132 to £3,480, while an annual season ticket from Gillingham in Kent to London will increase from £2,496 to £2,740, a rise of 9.7 per cent, or £244.

Weekly season tickets from Swindon to London, a route operated by First Great Western - the secondworst train company for punctuality - will rise from £154.10 to £169.20, an increase of £15.10 or 9.8 per cent.

Gerry Doherty, leader of the Transport Salaried Staffs' Association said the fare rises were "outrageous".

Under a formula agreed with the Government, regulated fares are pegged to the July rate of inflation - 3.8 per cent - plus 1 per cent.

In 2007, regulated fares rose by 4.3 per cent and unregulated by an average 4.7 per cent against an inflation rate of 3.3 per cent.


And they want us to stop using cars. It does seem to me that this governments’ answer in dealing with transport problems, is to price us all out of using them.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 15:07 
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Dixie wrote:
And they want us to stop using cars. It does seem to me that this governments’ answer in dealing with transport problems, is to price us all out of using them.


To observations on that Dixie:

Aren't the railways run by private companies who set the fares, albeit with a government subsidy?

If the government increased its subsidy to the railways wouldn't we than accuse them of further subsidising a minority transport choice at the expense of the private motorist.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 15:36 
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They are - however some fares are regulated by government who agreed to raise those fares by 4.8%

July rate of inflation, + 1% - wtf?? Why +1%. Also, i'd be very surprised if many people saw a wage increase of 4.8% to pay for this hike!

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Passengers face at least seven more years of hikes as part of Transport Secretary Ruth Kelly's strategy to make customers fund three-quarters of the cost of the railways by 2014. Fares currently fund half the cost.


I'd be prepared to bet that fares would comfortably cover some way more than half if these companies weren't all in it to make a profit too :( if only it was a non-profit organisation in charge :/


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 17:01 
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Road users already pay full whack for using the roads so shouldn't rail passengers pay the full cost of using the service? If people didn't like the prices charged then they'd use the car more instead. When rail passengers further fall then the operators would have to start having decent fare structures. If it's cheaper to fly to the other side of the country than take the train then you know the train is seriously over priced. Airlines should also pay full tax for fuel to make sure the playing field is level for all transport operators.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 17:18 
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teabelly wrote:
Road users already pay full whack for using the roads so shouldn't rail passengers pay the full cost of using the service? If people didn't like the prices charged then they'd use the car more instead. When rail passengers further fall then the operators would have to start having decent fare structures. If it's cheaper to fly to the other side of the country than take the train then you know the train is seriously over priced. Airlines should also pay full tax for fuel to make sure the playing field is level for all transport operators.


So are you in favour of or against the price hike?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 17:39 
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The increases follow a festive period marked by a shortage of cheaper advance tickets and disruption, delays and limited, if any, service due to repairs on much of the network.


Every year we see the same comments in the media. Can't these to"£$%rs see that the best time to do major maintenance is at the quietest time of the year. Can you imagine the uproar from these idiots if the work was carried out at peak periods.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 18:33 
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But the rail companies have defended their performance, with Virgin Trains, whose services have been severely affected by engineering work, accusing Network Rail of "bullying" the operating companies.


Interesting as were it not for upgrades (certainly to the West coast main line ) Virgin would not be able to run their tilting trains.

Be interesting to see if the complainants would be willing to spend their Xmas /New Year seeing more of work than home .

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 19:03 
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"They should be grateful they get so much subsidy, grumbling vitriolic public transport users, don't know they're born!" :lol: :P


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 20:12 
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If it's cheaper to fly to the other side of the country than take the train then you know the train is seriously over priced.


Really??

How many miles of track does "Easyjet" have to maintain and how much does i cost them each year?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 21:04 
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Dusty wrote:
How many miles of track does "Easyjet" have to maintain and how much does i cost them each year?


Train operators do not maintain the track either.

The problem is since privatisation there are too many fingers in the pie. Its hard to know who gets revenue from what.

Rail travel is still stuck in the dark ages.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 21:15 
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Train operators do not maintain the track either


But they still have to pay for it, one way or another.

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The problem is since privatisation there are too many fingers in the pie. Its hard to know who gets revenue from what.


Very true. The privatisation was not done terribly well, but wasnt that because EU "Rules" required that track operators and train operators had to be separate entities?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 21:27 
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Gizmo wrote:

Train operators do not maintain the track either.The problem is since privatisation there are too many fingers in the pie. Its hard to know who gets revenue from what.


Quite right --Network Rail (a not for profit organisation -a statement which always looks questionable ) does that --but only day to day maintenance - and some minor projects , by it's own staff- all the big stuff is contracted out to six ( soon to be four ,as a way of control of the six ) contractors , who sub contract bits out to others --bit like the story about the dog with fleas, the fleas had parasites etc.
And that's just( a little bit ) on the infrastructure side of things.Train operation is another kettle of fish.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 02:31 
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Dusty wrote:
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Train operators do not maintain the track either


But they still have to pay for it, one way or another.


Airlines don't maintain the runways or ATC systems, but they still have to pay for those...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 08:59 
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Both the rail service and the flight service have problems, both are running close to capacity at peak times. Both need more "track" to get more "carriers" moving. Neither seem that likely...building railtrack is another time consuming process, as is adding capacity to airports.
If I need to go to Scotland, I'll go by 'plane.
Same for the states (obviously)
At the end of the day, when cars are so restricted that people have to use PT, the same moaners now will be moaning then, and about the same things. With PT used instead of cars. It isn't cars they dislike anyway, it's people doing what they want, when they want.

It will be interesting to see the justification [by the moaners] for the price rises.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 14:31 
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botach wrote:
Quite right --Network Rail (a not for profit organisation -a statement which always looks questionable )


Network Rail is not a "not for profit" organisation, it's a "not for dividend" company. It actively endeavors to make a profit from charging the Train Operating Companies(TOCs) for track access rights and from it's large property portfolio. However, this money is then re-invested into the network.

It should be pointed out that not all TOCs recieve subsidy, some, like the recently re-franshised East Coast pay a large premium back to the government. Personally this seems a very bureaucratic way of trying to re-create the cross subsididation that existed under British Rail. That being the businessman with the First Class Open Return pays for the local, late night services that will never make a profit but exist as a social safety net for those unable to drive.

The biggest failure of privatisation was the way rolling stock was sold off to large banks who then lease them to the TOCs are huge prices. A 25 year old 2 car Diesel Multiple Unit costs, I beleive, in the region of £150k a year.

It's also worth pointing though that the freight operators recieve no subsidy and has been one of the successes of privatisation with significant growth and new contracts being awarded from road based transport which surely is a benefit to us all.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 01:21 
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40+ years on from Beeching and they still can't get it right.

Pathetic.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 01:39 
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Thatsnews wrote:
40+ years on from Beeching and they still can't get it right.

Pathetic.


It only goes to prove, if you want something to work do not let a government near it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 02:26 
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jomukuk wrote:
Thatsnews wrote:
40+ years on from Beeching and they still can't get it right.

Pathetic.


It only goes to prove, if you want something to work do not let a government near it.


That's true! :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 03:56 
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In real terms, We now subsidise the "Private Train Operators" at 3 times the cost to us taxpayers what we used to subsidise the Nationalised"British Rail" at.......

.....and that's NOT counting the ever ongoing cost of unemployement to the railmen and their subsequent families since privatisation and their sacking.

Now "I" don't think that that was a "good deal"...........the rich made a packet by "stealing" the railways and the Taxpayer/customer has been paying the cost ever since.

The more expensive the car becomes, (tax on cars) the more the "private train operator" will see an excuse to raise fares!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:44 
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Draco wrote:
In real terms, We now subsidise the "Private Train Operators" at 3 times the cost to us taxpayers what we used to subsidise the Nationalised"British Rail" at.......


That's true, and I agree privatisation has not worked, but we have seen improvements in the quality of rolling stock which I doubt we would have seen under British Rail. As mentioned before, freight has been a huge success, it was on it's knees under British Rail with vintage rolling stock yet the private operators have transformed this sector with new reliable, powerful, and more economical engines winning a lot of new contracts. What I'm saying is it's not ALL bad.

Passenger numbers also continue to rise, to the point where there is now huge amount of overcrowding. How much of this was down to privatisation and how much was down to a growing economy I don't know, as passenger numbers were rising under BR.

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.....and that's NOT counting the ever ongoing cost of unemployement to the railmen and their subsequent families since privatisation and their sacking.


Hmm that's quite a strange thing to say, since front line staff has generally done really rather well out of it. Wages for drivers have gone through the roof and guards and signallers have done very well too. The working week has come down now to around 35 hours. There was an issue very early on when some TOCs decided they didn't need as many drivers, offerered the "old hands" the money to go, then realised they had ballsed up becuse they didn't have enough drivers to run the service. That's since resolved and most TOCs are recruiting. There will be gradually less signallers as more technogically advanced signalboxes take over larger areas, but that is inevitable. It's actually nothing like as dramatic now as in the 1960s and 1970s when hunderds of signalboxes closed in rationalisation attempts.


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Now "I" don't think that that was a "good deal"...........the rich made a packet by "stealing" the railways and the Taxpayer/customer has been paying the cost ever since.


Yes mainly in the pockets of the large banks with leasing charges.

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