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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 02:16 
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http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/lo ... 56.0.0.php

'Speed cameras made no difference'

SPEED cameras in Bucks have made no difference to the number of serious or fatal crashes in the past five years, according to an inquisitive motorist.

Electronic engineer Dave Finney has collated data from the Thames Valley Safer Roads Partnership (TVSRP) website, and says there has been exactly the same number of crashes in the five years after cameras went in as there were before.

He said: "In other words there's been no improvement whatsoever."

Mr Finney's revelation relates to crashes where someone was killed or seriously injured (KSI) at the then 39 camera sites across the county.

He has also collected data for three and four years before and after cameras were installed, which even turned up some negative figures.

Mr Finney's figures have shown there were 44 KSI collisions four years before cameras were installed in 41 locations and 50 four years after - an increase of eight per cent.

Slough-based Mr Finney, who has been driving for more than 40 years, said he decided to investigate performance figures of cameras across the Thames Valley "on a whim".

"All I did was extraordinarily simple. I found the list (of figures), went to each in turn, copied and pasted numbers into an Excel spreadsheet and added them up - that's it," he said.

But TVSRP has hit back at his figures and says the number of collisions at speed camera sites has dropped by 24 per cent in the last three years.

Richard Owen, TVSRP operations manager, criticised the way Mr Finney worked out his numbers.

He said: "It's very difficult to look at our website and work out precisely what was happening before and precisely what was happening after. I've told him I will be giving him our main data so he can look at it in more detail."

He added TVSRP only uses the three years before and after a period to analyse its data because there was a change in the wording of accident forms after 1998, and because not all sites have figures available for five years before and after.

He added: "Fourteen per cent on average of all collisions between 2000 and 2007 had one of their causation factors as speed-related.

"When you look at fatalities it's 27 per cent in the most serious, tragic collisions. It's a much more prevalent factor, which is not a surprise really."


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 14:39 
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Quote:
He said: "It's very difficult to look at our website and work out precisely what was happening before and precisely what was happening after. I've told him I will be giving him our main data so he can look at it in more detail."


Which begs the questions why is it so difficult???

They are not looking to mislead the public are they??

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 18:17 
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Safety Engineer wrote:
Quote:
He said: "It's very difficult to look at our website and work out precisely what was happening before and precisely what was happening after. I've told him I will be giving him our main data so he can look at it in more detail."


Which begs the questions why is it so difficult???

They are not looking to mislead the public are they??


My sentiments exactly :)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 14:17 
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Safety Engineer wrote:
Quote:
He said: "It's very difficult to look at our website and work out precisely what was happening before and precisely what was happening after. I've told him I will be giving him our main data (after we've fudged & massaged it a bit) so he can look at it in more detail."


Which begs the questions why is it so difficult???

They are not looking to mislead the public are they??

:lol: :rotfl:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 00:48 
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wayneo wrote:
Richard Owen, TVSRP operations manager, criticised the way Mr Finney cherry picked his numbers.

He said: "If you cherry pick the right years and the right roads you can show a distinct RTTM"


Fixed that for you.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 23:07 
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Over here in Belgium (Flanders) the same result: 30% reduction in collisions alltogether but no statistically significant reduction in collisions with people killed or injured.
Despite that our government has decided to install an extra amount of speed cameras. I do not see the point but probably I am to dumb to understand.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 23:20 
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BottyBurp wrote:
(...)

Pecunia prius aequitas et salus.
Long ago I had Latin courses. It must be something like "the money is more important than justice or wellness". Is that correct?
(change equitas in aequitas, equitas is no Latin)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 18:39 
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Safety Engineer wrote:
Quote:
He said: "It's very difficult to look at our website and work out precisely what was happening before and precisely what was happening after. I've told him I will be giving him our main data so he can look at it in more detail."


Which begs the questions why is it so difficult???

They are not looking to mislead the public are they??


And some who claim speed cameras are not working, are not looking to mislead the public?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 23:04 
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crw wrote:
Safety Engineer wrote:
Quote:
He said: "It's very difficult to look at our website and work out precisely what was happening before and precisely what was happening after. I've told him I will be giving him our main data so he can look at it in more detail."


Which begs the questions why is it so difficult???

They are not looking to mislead the public are they??


And some who claim speed cameras are not working, are not looking to mislead the public?


Bloody Hell! Look, folks! Another speed camera personnel type person has parachuted in to give us the benefit of their wisdumb!:D

Who are you with, son? A Safety (sic!) Camera Partnership like the one for West Mercia whose drivers have been seen to break the speed limit? Or who park their entire bloody vans on the pavement, thus forcing pedestrians to walk in the dangerous road? I mean, it MUST be a dangerous road, because if it weren't, why would they put a speed camera there? :roll:

And yes, the two incidents were reported. And nothing was done about them. Why? "Oh, our drivers would NEVER break the speed limit! Our drivers would NEVER park on the pavement!" were the responses.

Or perhaps you are connected to the sadly broken Brake which started out with good intentions which has now become a puppet for the speed camera industry? Sad, that, but if you lie down with dogs, you get fleas.

By the way CRW, most supermarkets sell flea treatment, should you suddenly start to itch... :twisted:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 15:41 
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Thatsnews wrote:
crw wrote:
Safety Engineer wrote:
Quote:
He said: "It's very difficult to look at our website and work out precisely what was happening before and precisely what was happening after. I've told him I will be giving him our main data so he can look at it in more detail."


Which begs the questions why is it so difficult???

They are not looking to mislead the public are they??


And some who claim speed cameras are not working, are not looking to mislead the public?


Bloody Hell! Look, folks! Another speed camera personnel type person has parachuted in to give us the benefit of their wisdumb!:D

Who are you with, son? A Safety (sic!) Camera Partnership like the one for West Mercia whose drivers have been seen to break the speed limit? Or who park their entire bloody vans on the pavement, thus forcing pedestrians to walk in the dangerous road? I mean, it MUST be a dangerous road, because if it weren't, why would they put a speed camera there? :roll:

And yes, the two incidents were reported. And nothing was done about them. Why? "Oh, our drivers would NEVER break the speed limit! Our drivers would NEVER park on the pavement!" were the responses.

Or perhaps you are connected to the sadly broken Brake which started out with good intentions which has now become a puppet for the speed camera industry? Sad, that, but if you lie down with dogs, you get fleas.

By the way CRW, most supermarkets sell flea treatment, should you suddenly start to itch... :twisted:


Thatsnew,
Read your own comments, my opinion is a lot better then what you can dig up.

Jealous?

Or perhaps by writing nonsense you are too scare to reply to face reality?

And perhaps before you start writing nonsense, you should checked the facts and then you won't make yourself look stupid in public.

By the way how did you go with your speeding fine or the Doctor Appointment, any cure for the fleas?

PS Me being your son, no chance.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 03:03 
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crw wrote:
Thatsnews wrote:
crw wrote:
Safety Engineer wrote:
Quote:
He said: "It's very difficult to look at our website and work out precisely what was happening before and precisely what was happening after. I've told him I will be giving him our main data so he can look at it in more detail."


Which begs the questions why is it so difficult???

They are not looking to mislead the public are they??


And some who claim speed cameras are not working, are not looking to mislead the public?


Bloody Hell! Look, folks! Another speed camera personnel type person has parachuted in to give us the benefit of their wisdumb!:D

Who are you with, son? A Safety (sic!) Camera Partnership like the one for West Mercia whose drivers have been seen to break the speed limit? Or who park their entire bloody vans on the pavement, thus forcing pedestrians to walk in the dangerous road? I mean, it MUST be a dangerous road, because if it weren't, why would they put a speed camera there? :roll:

And yes, the two incidents were reported. And nothing was done about them. Why? "Oh, our drivers would NEVER break the speed limit! Our drivers would NEVER park on the pavement!" were the responses.

Or perhaps you are connected to the sadly broken Brake which started out with good intentions which has now become a puppet for the speed camera industry? Sad, that, but if you lie down with dogs, you get fleas.

By the way CRW, most supermarkets sell flea treatment, should you suddenly start to itch... :twisted:


Thatsnew,
Read your own comments, my opinion is a lot better then what you can dig up.

Jealous?

Or perhaps by writing nonsense you are too scare to reply to face reality?

And perhaps before you start writing nonsense, you should checked the facts and then you won't make yourself look stupid in public.

By the way how did you go with your speeding fine or the Doctor Appointment, any cure for the fleas?

PS Me being your son, no chance.


You have rather made a bit of a twit of yourself, haven't you? You have shown yourself to be a troll because you HAVE parachuted here to offer us your wisdumb. How so? Well, you see, had you been a real user of this board you would not have made the rather silly crack about my speeding fine.
Quote:
Read your own comments, my opinion is a lot better then what you can dig up.
Really?

You see, I have never had a speeding fine. Never likely to, either, because I gave up driving some years ago, due to a problem with my eyesight. Which I mentioned on this board a couple of times, when it was relevant to the thread.

You have rather tipped your hand with your throw away remark. You presume that everyone who posts here is an embittered speed freak who has been done for driving at 60mph in a 30mph zone.

You are wrong. And wrong in so many different ways, too...

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 09:23 
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Ehem

Must be something about electronics engineers...

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 08:51 
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Thatsnews wrote:
crw wrote:
Thatsnews wrote:
crw wrote:
Safety Engineer wrote:
Quote:
He said: "It's very difficult to look at our website and work out precisely what was happening before and precisely what was happening after. I've told him I will be giving him our main data so he can look at it in more detail."


Which begs the questions why is it so difficult???

They are not looking to mislead the public are they??


And some who claim speed cameras are not working, are not looking to mislead the public?


Bloody Hell! Look, folks! Another speed camera personnel type person has parachuted in to give us the benefit of their wisdumb!:D

Who are you with, son? A Safety (sic!) Camera Partnership like the one for West Mercia whose drivers have been seen to break the speed limit? Or who park their entire bloody vans on the pavement, thus forcing pedestrians to walk in the dangerous road? I mean, it MUST be a dangerous road, because if it weren't, why would they put a speed camera there? :roll:

And yes, the two incidents were reported. And nothing was done about them. Why? "Oh, our drivers would NEVER break the speed limit! Our drivers would NEVER park on the pavement!" were the responses.

Or perhaps you are connected to the sadly broken Brake which started out with good intentions which has now become a puppet for the speed camera industry? Sad, that, but if you lie down with dogs, you get fleas.

By the way CRW, most supermarkets sell flea treatment, should you suddenly start to itch... :twisted:


Thatsnew,
Read your own comments, my opinion is a lot better then what you can dig up.

Jealous?

Or perhaps by writing nonsense you are too scare to reply to face reality?

And perhaps before you start writing nonsense, you should checked the facts and then you won't make yourself look stupid in public.

By the way how did you go with your speeding fine or the Doctor Appointment, any cure for the fleas?

PS Me being your son, no chance.


You have rather made a bit of a twit of yourself, haven't you? You have shown yourself to be a troll because you HAVE parachuted here to offer us your wisdumb. How so? Well, you see, had you been a real user of this board you would not have made the rather silly crack about my speeding fine.
Quote:
Read your own comments, my opinion is a lot better then what you can dig up.
Really?

You see, I have never had a speeding fine. Never likely to, either, because I gave up driving some years ago, due to a problem with my eyesight. Which I mentioned on this board a couple of times, when it was relevant to the thread.

You have rather tipped your hand with your throw away remark. You presume that everyone who posts here is an embittered speed freak who has been done for driving at 60mph in a 30mph zone.

You are wrong. And wrong in so many different ways, too...


Thatsnew,
By writing stupid comments that had nothing to do with the issue and abusing people because you are too weak to accept other people do not agree with you and your opinions?

Are you are real user of this forum and not a twit?

And another thing you are too weak to accept is you have proven wrong many times another as no I have not "presume that everyone who posts here is an embittered speed freak who has been done for driving at 60mph in a 30mph zone".

So thatsnew you have a choice, keep writing and prove in public, what a twit, liar and how weak you are or stop writing?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:48 
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crw wrote:

Thatsnew,
By writing stupid comments that had nothing to do with the issue and abusing people because you are too weak to accept other people do not agree with you and your opinions?

Are you are real user of this forum and not a twit?

And another thing you are too weak to accept is you have proven wrong many times another as no I have not "presume that everyone who posts here is an embittered speed freak who has been done for driving at 60mph in a 30mph zone".

So thatsnew you have a choice, keep writing and prove in public, what a twit, liar and how weak you are or stop writing?


Boring.
More slanging and insults.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:03 
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jomukuk wrote:
Boring.
More slanging and insults.


Absolutely started by Thatsnews after a pretty innocuous observation by crw.

Again a classic case of an affiliate getting away with it (trolling, ad hominin, insult and ridiculous assertions) IMO.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:07 
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weepej wrote:
jomukuk wrote:
Boring.
More slanging and insults.


Absolutely started by Thatsnews after a pretty innocuous observation by crw.

Again a classic case of an affiliate getting away with it (trolling, ad hominin, insult and ridiculous assertions) IMO.


Boring.
More slanging and insults.

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:09 
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jomukuk wrote:
Boring.
More slanging and insults.


Well, quite, perhaps Thatsnews could be a little more circumspect before responding in future.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 14:49 
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jomukuk wrote:
crw wrote:

Thatsnew,
By writing stupid comments that had nothing to do with the issue and abusing people because you are too weak to accept other people do not agree with you and your opinions?

Are you are real user of this forum and not a twit?

And another thing you are too weak to accept is you have proven wrong many times another as no I have not "presume that everyone who posts here is an embittered speed freak who has been done for driving at 60mph in a 30mph zone".

So thatsnew you have a choice, keep writing and prove in public, what a twit, liar and how weak you are or stop writing?


Boring.
More slanging and insults.


What me jom?

Sorry I am not thatsnew.

As I was just pointing out the truth to thatsnew, that abusing me, writing stupid comments, making false claims, proves in public they are a twit, liar and weak.

But repeating one self, not boring?

:wink:

And thanks weepej :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 14:57 
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Only ONE Electronic engineer and ONE Newspapers say "SPEED cameras in Bucks have made no difference to the number of serious or fatal crashes in the past five years" when there are how many speed cameras in The UK?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 15:28 
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crw wrote:
Only ONE Electronic engineer and ONE Newspapers say "SPEED cameras in Bucks have made no difference to the number of serious or fatal crashes in the past five years" when there are how many speed cameras in The UK?


I see.... So then you would say it is perfectly acceptable to ignore the results of his research and analyis, then?

I cannot agree with you. Because you provide an invalid argument.

The fact that one electronic engineer discovers that there are serious flaws in the data of one speed camera partnership does not mean that his analysis can be ignored.

What would be ideal would be if independent scientists like the chap quoted are invited to undertake rigorous analysis of the data of every speed camera partnership.

And as I think I pointed out the staff of some camera partnerships do not take road safety seriously in any case. The West Mercia Camera Partnership was made aware that one of their drivers was seen driving at a speed well in excess of the posted speed limit. Now, either this meant that the driver knew that it was safe to drive at a speed higher than the posted speed limit, or that he knew he was driving at a dangerous speed and just did not care. Either way he was able to blow a hole through the reason that his employers exist.

And a colleague of his was seen -by me- to have his entire -fairly large van- parked entirely on the pavement whilst he changed the film in the speed camera.

By doing so he forced pedestrians with prams to walk off the pavement into the flow of traffic and also breached the DDA by blocking the pavement to wheelchair users and people using disabled scooters. He also obscured a junction to other road users.

Several people reported the speeding driver and I reported the driver who had dangerously and illegally parked his van.

Both were dismissed. My email in reply was a classic. They would not even investigate my claim because "I know that none of my colleagues would break the law in such a manner." Apparently she gave a similar reply to the allegation of speeding, too. (The drivers who complained were driving at the posted limit and he overtook a line of traffic at a speed that was well in excess, and nor did he slow down.)

So basically they are given "cart blanche" to drive as they like and park where they want. If the staff of the partnerships do not take road safety properly what does tihs tell us about the supposed role of the partnerships in promoting road safety? It's a bit hollow, isn't it?

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