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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 15:36 
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Thatsnews wrote:
crw wrote:
Only ONE Electronic engineer and ONE Newspapers say "SPEED cameras in Bucks have made no difference to the number of serious or fatal crashes in the past five years" when there are how many speed cameras in The UK?


I see.... So then you would say it is perfectly acceptable to ignore the results of his research and analyis, then?

I cannot agree with you. Because you provide an invalid argument.

The fact that one electronic engineer discovers that there are serious flaws in the data of one speed camera partnership does not mean that his analysis can be ignored.

What would be ideal would be if independent scientists like the chap quoted are invited to undertake rigorous analysis of the data of every speed camera partnership.

And as I think I pointed out the staff of some camera partnerships do not take road safety seriously in any case. The West Mercia Camera Partnership was made aware that one of their drivers was seen driving at a speed well in excess of the posted speed limit. Now, either this meant that the driver knew that it was safe to drive at a speed higher than the posted speed limit, or that he knew he was driving at a dangerous speed and just did not care. Either way he was able to blow a hole through the reason that his employers exist.

And a colleague of his was seen -by me- to have his entire -fairly large van- parked entirely on the pavement whilst he changed the film in the speed camera.

By doing so he forced pedestrians with prams to walk off the pavement into the flow of traffic and also breached the DDA by blocking the pavement to wheelchair users and people using disabled scooters. He also obscured a junction to other road users.

Several people reported the speeding driver and I reported the driver who had dangerously and illegally parked his van.

Both were dismissed. My email in reply was a classic. They would not even investigate my claim because "I know that none of my colleagues would break the law in such a manner." Apparently she gave a similar reply to the allegation of speeding, too. (The drivers who complained were driving at the posted limit and he overtook a line of traffic at a speed that was well in excess, and nor did he slow down.)

So basically they are given "cart blanche" to drive as they like and park where they want. If the staff of the partnerships do not take road safety properly what does tihs tell us about the supposed role of the partnerships in promoting road safety? It's a bit hollow, isn't it?


One person and newspaper is research, can't you do any better then that thatsnew especially where there a number of speed cameras in The UK?

And thanks to your own comments, where you make claims without facts, any other claims like the one above is not to be believe as the truth.

But then again are you going to report everyday drivers who blocked the path or speed?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 15:56 
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crw wrote:
Thatsnews wrote:
crw wrote:
Only ONE Electronic engineer and ONE Newspapers say "SPEED cameras in Bucks have made no difference to the number of serious or fatal crashes in the past five years" when there are how many speed cameras in The UK?


I see.... So then you would say it is perfectly acceptable to ignore the results of his research and analyis, then?

I cannot agree with you. Because you provide an invalid argument.

The fact that one electronic engineer discovers that there are serious flaws in the data of one speed camera partnership does not mean that his analysis can be ignored.

What would be ideal would be if independent scientists like the chap quoted are invited to undertake rigorous analysis of the data of every speed camera partnership.

And as I think I pointed out the staff of some camera partnerships do not take road safety seriously in any case. The West Mercia Camera Partnership was made aware that one of their drivers was seen driving at a speed well in excess of the posted speed limit. Now, either this meant that the driver knew that it was safe to drive at a speed higher than the posted speed limit, or that he knew he was driving at a dangerous speed and just did not care. Either way he was able to blow a hole through the reason that his employers exist.

And a colleague of his was seen -by me- to have his entire -fairly large van- parked entirely on the pavement whilst he changed the film in the speed camera.

By doing so he forced pedestrians with prams to walk off the pavement into the flow of traffic and also breached the DDA by blocking the pavement to wheelchair users and people using disabled scooters. He also obscured a junction to other road users.

Several people reported the speeding driver and I reported the driver who had dangerously and illegally parked his van.

Both were dismissed. My email in reply was a classic. They would not even investigate my claim because "I know that none of my colleagues would break the law in such a manner." Apparently she gave a similar reply to the allegation of speeding, too. (The drivers who complained were driving at the posted limit and he overtook a line of traffic at a speed that was well in excess, and nor did he slow down.)

So basically they are given "cart blanche" to drive as they like and park where they want. If the staff of the partnerships do not take road safety properly what does tihs tell us about the supposed role of the partnerships in promoting road safety? It's a bit hollow, isn't it?


One person and newspaper is research, can't you do any better then that thatsnew especially where there a number of speed cameras in The UK?

And thanks to your own comments, where you make claims without facts, any other claims like the one above is not to be believe as the truth.

But then again are you going to report everyday drivers who blocked the path or speed?


So you do not believe what anyone says on this forum? You consider us all to by liars, do you?:?

A somewhat limiting point of view, although useful for you, in that it means you do not have to think about replying to a post. For instead of undertaking any research or applying much in the way of thought you can airily dismiss what anyone says here by posting something like:

Quote:
And thanks to your own comments, where you make claims without facts, any other claims like the one above is not to be believe as the truth.


If you think we are all liars why do you bother posting here? And that is a serious question.

From the way you formulate your posts, I would guess that English is perhaps not your first language. That's not a criticism, just an observation.

If English is not your first language, then I imagine you might be living in a country from outside the UK? Or that you came to the UK from a different country?

If so, do speed cameras exist in your country? Do they work there? What is the public perception of them? Are they seen as a positive influence on road safety? Or not?

If you are from the UK, please forgive me and just ignore those last three paragraphs. :)

However, I would like you to answer my point about the advisability of having independent analysis of the data of every speed camera partnership in the UK.

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 Post subject: Thats, how does it feel
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 16:27 
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Much bullshit, lies etc etc deleted.

Why do you do this to yourself in public thatsnew?

Why do you make false claims that we both know are nothing but lies?

As I did not say all in Safe Speed Forums are liars as you wrongly claim again, I only called you a liar and your own comments is proof of this.

And this is not a criticism, just an observation, if you weren't too busy being a complete twit and liar, and look beyond your nose you would understand even more reality.

That there are in fact different countries apart from The UK, that also speak and write English, but hold on in certain parts of The UK they don't speak or write English as a 1st language anyway such as Wales or Ireland?

And coming up with the English comments or asking questions with questions is a normal reply from a person who hasn't got the guts to debate the issue.

So have you got anything useful to write on the issue and not stupid comments directed towards me?

Such as do you report everyday drivers for speeding or parking on the path?

Nah didn't think so.

PS English is my 1st Language (How about you?) and where yes unlike what you may think, we do speak and write not only English, but many other Languages like The UK.

And yes we have speed cameras, where like people from The UK they don't like reality that speed cameras save lives.


Last edited by crw on Sat Jan 26, 2008 16:41, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Thatsnew another lie?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 16:36 
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Thatsnew if you actually read my comments below, you would have noticed I wrote "your own comments" which anyone with common sense would understand is not anyone.

But then again maybe we should considered this as another lie of yours, in claiming something you know is not true?

crw quote:
And thanks to your own comments, where you make claims without facts, any other claims like the one above is not to be believe as the truth.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 16:37 
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Northern Ireland, or the Irish republic ?
And I would not say that English is the second language in Wales.
There are more English people living in Wales than Welsh. Which makes English the first language !
Oh, and I was born in North Wales. The place where next-to-nobody talks Welsh.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 16:45 
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jomukuk wrote:
Northern Ireland, or the Irish republic ?
And I would not say that English is the second language in Wales.
There are more English people living in Wales than Welsh. Which makes English the first language !
Oh, and I was born in North Wales. The place where next-to-nobody talks Welsh.


Jom can you PM the following, as I thought this was about Speed Cameras.

Both?

And next-to-nobody talks Welsh in Wales, you must know a lot of Welsh people?

Also do you information that proves, you would not say that English is the second language in Wales and more English people living in Wales then Welsh?

Thanks

:)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 16:59 
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crw wrote:
Much bullshit, lies etc etc deleted.

Why do you do this to yourself in public thatsnew?

Why do you make false claims that we both know are nothing but lies?

As I did not say all in Safe Speed Forums are liars as you wrongly claim again, I only called you a liar and your own comments is proof of this.

And this is not a criticism, just an observation, if you weren't too busy being a complete twit and liar, and look beyond your nose you would understand even more reality.

That there are in fact different countries apart from The UK, that also speak and write English, but hold on in certain parts of The UK they don't speak or write English as a 1st language anyway such as Wales or Ireland?

And coming up with the English comments or asking questions with questions is a normal reply from a person who hasn't got the guts to debate the issue.

So have you got anything useful to write on the issue and not stupid comments directed towards me?

Such as do you report everyday drivers for speeding or parking on the path?

Nah didn't think so.

PS English is my 1st Language (How about you?) and where yes unlike what you may think, we do speak and write not only English, but many other Languages like The UK.

And yes we have speed cameras, where like people from The UK they don't like reality that speed cameras save lives.


So I was right. You are not from the UK. So, do they have speed cameras where you live? Do they work? Are they better accepted there than, in general, they are in the UK?

I am not directing stupid comments towards you. I am asking you genuine questions.

I am sorry if my humour upset you. Clearly the British sense of humour is not always recognised as humorous to people from outside the UK and if I inadvertently upset you, then I apologise.

Interesting that you should mention Welsh. As my family originated from a part of Wales where Welsh is the first language, pretty much. (Mid Wales.)

And I am glad you pulled me up on this point, crw. For even in parts of England English is NOT the first language. Oh, true, it is a small part and it is slowly dying out, sadly. But in parts of Shropshire (a county on the border with Wales) Welsh is the first language. A court case some 20 years ago, involving a local farmer, had to have a translator for him as, although he was born in England, he only understood Welsh.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 17:08 
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Thatsnews wrote:
I am sorry if my humour upset you. Clearly the British sense of humour is not always recognised as humorous to people from outside the UK and if I inadvertently upset you, then I apologise.


Oh, dear... there are people here that know what a british sense of humour is Thatsnews (as I suspect crw does), and you certainly didn't show it!

Stop digging!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 18:03 
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weepej wrote:
Thatsnews wrote:
I am sorry if my humour upset you. Clearly the British sense of humour is not always recognised as humorous to people from outside the UK and if I inadvertently upset you, then I apologise.


Oh, dear... there are people here that know what a british sense of humour is Thatsnews (as I suspect crw does), and you certainly didn't show it!

Stop digging!


Weepej. What makes you say that? Do you mean you suspect that crw is only playing the "me no understand you" role? That he really knows full well what people have said, when he claims to misunderstand them?

You could be right about him. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 18:09 
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Thatsnews wrote:
weepej wrote:
Thatsnews wrote:
I am sorry if my humour upset you. Clearly the British sense of humour is not always recognised as humorous to people from outside the UK and if I inadvertently upset you, then I apologise.


Oh, dear... there are people here that know what a british sense of humour is Thatsnews (as I suspect crw does), and you certainly didn't show it!

Stop digging!


Weepej. What makes you say that? Do you mean you suspect that crw is only playing the "me no understand you" role? That he really knows full well what people have said, when he claims to misunderstand them?

You could be right about him. :)


So thatsnew where did I claim I misunderstand people or are you lying again?

And on this basic I don't understand you thatsnew, why do you lie in public especially in writing comments that has nothing to do with the issue?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 18:19 
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http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/census2001/Report_on_the_Welsh_language.pdf

Oh, and Welsh is tought in schools as a second language, is it not ?

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 18:28 
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Thatsnews wrote:
crw wrote:
Much bullshit, lies etc etc deleted.

Why do you do this to yourself in public thatsnew?

Why do you make false claims that we both know are nothing but lies?

As I did not say all in Safe Speed Forums are liars as you wrongly claim again, I only called you a liar and your own comments is proof of this.

And this is not a criticism, just an observation, if you weren't too busy being a complete twit and liar, and look beyond your nose you would understand even more reality.

That there are in fact different countries apart from The UK, that also speak and write English, but hold on in certain parts of The UK they don't speak or write English as a 1st language anyway such as Wales or Ireland?

And coming up with the English comments or asking questions with questions is a normal reply from a person who hasn't got the guts to debate the issue.

So have you got anything useful to write on the issue and not stupid comments directed towards me?

Such as do you report everyday drivers for speeding or parking on the path?

Nah didn't think so.

PS English is my 1st Language (How about you?) and where yes unlike what you may think, we do speak and write not only English, but many other Languages like The UK.

And yes we have speed cameras, where like people from The UK they don't like reality that speed cameras save lives.


So I was right. You are not from the UK. So, do they have speed cameras where you live? Do they work? Are they better accepted there than, in general, they are in the UK?

I am not directing stupid comments towards you. I am asking you genuine questions.

I am sorry if my humour upset you. Clearly the British sense of humour is not always recognised as humorous to people from outside the UK and if I inadvertently upset you, then I apologise.

Interesting that you should mention Welsh. As my family originated from a part of Wales where Welsh is the first language, pretty much. (Mid Wales.)

And I am glad you pulled me up on this point, crw. For even in parts of England English is NOT the first language. Oh, true, it is a small part and it is slowly dying out, sadly. But in parts of Shropshire (a county on the border with Wales) Welsh is the first language. A court case some 20 years ago, involving a local farmer, had to have a translator for him as, although he was born in England, he only understood Welsh.


Thatsnew with "So, do they have speed cameras where you live?" proves you don't read comments before replying, because with "And yes we have speed cameras, where like people from The UK they don't like reality that speed cameras save lives" I did in fact say we have speed cameras where I am.

So may I suggest you read comments before replying, especially to see your questions have in fact been answered.

And you don't need to apologise, because your humour didn't upset me, in fact I am laughing at your expense.

So now what else do you want to pull you up on, maybe another question of yours where the question has already been answered, such as speed cameras where I am etc etc?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 18:32 
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jomukuk wrote:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/census2001/Report_on_the_Welsh_language.pdf

Oh, and Welsh is tought in schools as a second language, is it not ?


So jom is Welsh taught as 2nd Language is it not, especially as didn't thatsnew said Welsh is the 1st Language?

2001 report and now it is what 2008?

7 years apart, any up to date information?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 18:35 
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crw wrote:
jomukuk wrote:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/census2001/Report_on_the_Welsh_language.pdf

Oh, and Welsh is tought in schools as a second language, is it not ?


So jom is Welsh taught as 2nd Language is it not, especially as didn't thatsnew said Welsh is the 1st Language?


crw, I will explain the situation for you.

In Wales, Welsh is officially the first language. In parts of Wales, Welsh is the first language, the language of choice.

In some parts of Wales although officially it is the first language, it is, in effect, the secondary language, as the majority of people in those areas speak English and have no Welsh, or very little Welsh.

I hope that clears the situation up.

I did not see the post in which you described the speed camera situation in your country. Thank you for pointing out the situation in your country.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 18:39 
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Thatsnews wrote:
crw wrote:
jomukuk wrote:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/census2001/Report_on_the_Welsh_language.pdf

Oh, and Welsh is tought in schools as a second language, is it not ?


So jom is Welsh taught as 2nd Language is it not, especially as didn't thatsnew said Welsh is the 1st Language?


crw, I will explain the situation for you.

In parts of Wales, Welsh is the first language. In other parts of Wales although officially it is the first language, it is, in effect, the secondary language, as the majority of people in those areas speak English and have no Welsh, or very little Welsh.


Thatsnew shouldn't you be explaining the situation to jom as wasn't he/she the one who claimed in Wales, English is the 1st Language and not the 2nd?

And thank you for the thank you about speed cameras where I am and really back to comments on speed cameras.

Such as:

Ok, say for example does Safe Speed has facts that proves lives well be saved, if speed cameras were removed?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 19:14 
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If you go through the CENSUS reports, you'll note that "no knowledge of welsh" averages at 69% (+- due to no use of hundredths of a percent)

In the 1911 census the percentage of people in Wales, speaking Welsh, was about 43%.

69% is a majority.
Overall.
Leaving-out the small pockets of resistance, which will doubtless be eliminated by enforced indoctrination at school !

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 16:39 
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jomukuk wrote:
If you go through the CENSUS reports, you'll note that "no knowledge of welsh" averages at 69% (+- due to no use of hundredths of a percent)

In the 1911 census the percentage of people in Wales, speaking Welsh, was about 43%.

69% is a majority.
Overall.
Leaving-out the small pockets of resistance, which will doubtless be eliminated by enforced indoctrination at school !


Jom thanks for your census claims that are nearly a 100 years out of date as we are in 2008 not 1911 and that would have been more census since 1911?

But don't you think this talk about who speaks what should be banned :wink: and that we write about the issue of the claims without evidence "Speed Cameras made no difference!"?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 18:31 
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crw wrote:
jomukuk wrote:
If you go through the CENSUS reports, you'll note that "no knowledge of welsh" averages at 69% (+- due to no use of hundredths of a percent)

In the 1911 census the percentage of people in Wales, speaking Welsh, was about 43%.

69% is a majority.
Overall.
Leaving-out the small pockets of resistance, which will doubtless be eliminated by enforced indoctrination at school !


Jom thanks for your census claims that are nearly a 100 years out of date as we are in 2008 not 1911 and that would have been more census since 1911?

But don't you think this talk about who speaks what should be banned :wink: and that we write about the issue of the claims without evidence "Speed Cameras made no difference!"?


I didn't start the deviation. The 69% was from the latest census, 2001 I believe. The next is due about 2011.

1911, 57% didn't speak Welsh.
2001, 69% didn't speak welsh.

And speed cameras have not reduced the number of accidents, although they MAY (with some element of disbelief) have reduced the level at SOME camera sites. There is also an element of disinterest here....since I'm fed-up with people slamming the brakes on when they see a camera/camera van, even though they were already doing under the limit.
I'm also peed-off with those dorks who load their satnav up with all the camera sites, mobile sites and traffic light cameras....even though it means they cannot see the map for the camera icons. And they also do not realise that the police give out LOADS of "we're going to camera vans at ******** during the week"....and the morons download MORE sites....before I dumped all the mobile sites from my satnav it was coming-up with about 3 per mile....

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:47 
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jomukuk wrote:
crw wrote:
jomukuk wrote:
If you go through the CENSUS reports, you'll note that "no knowledge of welsh" averages at 69% (+- due to no use of hundredths of a percent)

In the 1911 census the percentage of people in Wales, speaking Welsh, was about 43%.

69% is a majority.
Overall.
Leaving-out the small pockets of resistance, which will doubtless be eliminated by enforced indoctrination at school !


Jom thanks for your census claims that are nearly a 100 years out of date as we are in 2008 not 1911 and that would have been more census since 1911?

But don't you think this talk about who speaks what should be banned :wink: and that we write about the issue of the claims without evidence "Speed Cameras made no difference!"?


I didn't start the deviation. The 69% was from the latest census, 2001 I believe. The next is due about 2011.

1911, 57% didn't speak Welsh.
2001, 69% didn't speak welsh.

And speed cameras have not reduced the number of accidents, although they MAY (with some element of disbelief) have reduced the level at SOME camera sites. .


But jom you did in fact only provided stats from 1911 until I pointed this out and then you finally provided what you claim are 2001 stats with no links to these stats.

And how you got any evidence to prove yet more of your claims "And speed cameras have not reduced the number of accidents, although they MAY (with some element of disbelief) have reduced the level at SOME camera sites" and "people slamming the brakes on when they see a camera/camera van, even though they were already doing under the limit"?

Especially as you cannot be everywhere in the world to see people slamming on their brakes who you claim they were doing under the limit?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 21:19 
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Quote:
But jom you did in fact only provided stats from 1911 until I pointed this out and then you finally provided what you claim are 2001 stats with no links to these stats.


I gave you the link to the LAST census. Since that was the LAST census DONE (they are every TEN YEARS) it is the most UP TO DATE ONE AVAILABLE.
Go back through the posts and look:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/ ... nguage.pdf

But extrapolating the data from the various census results shows that fewer people speak welsh each time. And as more and more "foreign" immigrants arrive to live in Wales each year and fewer and fewer Welsh people chose to educate their children in a made-up-recently language (700ad)

http://www.uoc.es/euromosaic/web/document/gales/an/i1/i1.html#1

Of course, you will not believe any of this.
I am however not going to resort to harsh language, unlike others, because having analysed your posts I conclude you purpose is just that.

Have a nice day.

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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