Safe Speed Forums

Liebchen.. my views on using Handy phone whilst driving are more or less in internet folklore .. especially on a PH argument.

But .. I do think the prosecution has not proven speed or whether she text at point of impact beyond doubt. This case open to appeal in too many ways if the journalist ist accurate. Note the words. Our comments are based on what reported after all ALL comments

I think.. based on what I do see going on around me


1. she read text message . und perhaps possessed type of phone you have to hold in order to read. I use a phone bought in 2004. My kids have better one. I leave mine bei relative in error .. so I nick nicer phone which I find in kittens' drawer when I need it It has more basic function but does it all better than mine

2. She see light aheads on green. She think "I can make it before change" und she accelerate. She not expect to find someone break a different law.

3. Based on this knowledge that she tried to beat a light signal. she concede she maybe over speed limit. But margin of speed not proven.

4. She very unlucky that another person disobeyed basic laws und did not use COAST either.


Look .. if the message was C O A S T .... BIKEABILILY /./ ROAD CRAFT/CYCLE CRAFT

I think we might just have avoided a real tragedy for each family involved here.


It not anti-cycling nor disrespectful to the deceased to suggest applying COAST or simply obeying a basic law might save lives.

It not nti-driving to suggest the driver apply COAST. look ahead und has phone switched off or use hand free with brief common sense intelligence.

Speed? We all know folk do not discern speed und complacency or reliance on cruise control can cause tragedy.

I still say we all responsible for own safety. Developing skills.. matters. Recognising how our action affect another matter.

COAST matters und ist PEER REVIEWED as we prove it to be mark sheet for all official courses.
Only fools complain und undermine this. They also LAW BREAKERS with scant regard for others given the militancy of CM und whining that anyone who see law breaking on the part of a cyclist ist "anti-cyclingW"

On contrary . it pro .. und safey led

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(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

I feel I should point out that use of the cycle path, and helmet are not compulsory - and indeed cycling between Windermere and Staveley, I abandon the cycle path as traffic allows, to make the cross over when it is convenient, rather than get to the crossing, and find you have to wait several minutes for a gap in the traffic.

However, this is a risk which I take entirely at my own discretion, AND could jeopardise my safety.
Like most of the riders in the Tour de France, I DO wear a helmet.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

looks like a reasonable facility.. assuming its lit & well kept.

ernest... have been up your way a bit recently, was pointing out to the wife the various exciting blackspots & cycle lanes you've educated us all about

I bet she loved you for that!
I hope you took her to LAKELAND's shop near the station! Then you could have visited me and checked out the Hawkshead Brewery, and let the wife drive home!

Seriously though, the local council sweep the Ings to Windermere cyclepath regularly, although just like the road, there's always something crops up in between cleaning.

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I think she was let down by her defence.
She could not explain why she hadn't seen the cyclist, except that as she approached the junction she looked right - which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do - so the prosecution contended that she must have been distracted by her mobile.
But, looking closely at the road geometry, angles etc, it's possible to see that a situation could have arisen whereby the cyclist could have been completely hidden by her 'A' pillar for quite a long period. He would have had to have been travelling at around 2/3 of her speed for that to happen, but it's entirely possible.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

I find most urban enclosed type cycle paths are normally strewn with glass.

I think some people enjoy the thought of dishing out punctures by chucking a bottle on the pathway; fair enough, its a statement I suppose.

Her mistake was that she probably answered the questions honestly.

"Had you used your mobile phone that morning?"
"Yes, but..."
"Ah! So you admit to texting your former husband whilst you callously mowed down that poor, innocent flower of youth (blah, blah, blah etc)"

"Did you break the speed limit?"
"Well, I don't recall my exact speed, I suppose I might..."
Ah! So you admit that you were driving well over the speed limit when you callously mowed down that poor, innocent flower of youth (blah, blah, blah etc)"

Without a good, hardened defence counsel its bloody hard to stop that kind of nonsense in its tracks....

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

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As for alll in story.

Oh yes.. I am sure the young cyclist was a nice lad.

I am sure the woman driver is a decent caring woman too.

Neither are then "nasty types" ..

BUT each made a very catastophic error in that one admitted to glancing at the phone message and was not sure of her speed.

The other took a chance.

Catastrophic events followed.

I cannot see how the case was proven against the woman based on the journalese

She was silly. He was silly.

I think a fine/ban and not prison would be fair. She would normally expect others to abide by law. He was in darkclothing as well. Two wrongs never make things right .. but justice has to reflect the sequence of events. I think she has room to appeal against a jail term based on the report.

I am sure all involved are basically decent and whilst she denies full guilt as she's well entitled to... she did not COAST properly.. but even so .. I think we fail justice ig we jail her. Like the young man's family. she also has the life long shadow of over her life.

I do feel for all really.

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Based on the report?

Of course, your conclusion should be based on the evidence presented to the jury, their's was.

Let's be clear here, none of us has seen this evidence, we're all speculating.

Psssttt! That's what happens on forums.

And not all juries follow the cases, either.

There was a report compiled before the legislation changed on reporting jury deliberations.

These are some of the points I remember:-

"I think he is guilt. He looks like my brother-in-law."
"Well, whatever YOU lot say, guilty or innocent, I am going to take the opposing viewpoint."
"Oh, he MUST be guilty. I mean, if he weren't guilty the police would not have arrested him and the prosecution wouldn't have put him on trial."

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It does make you wonder if there should be a compulsory IQ test for juries.

Incidentally, has anyone noticed that there appears to be a near miss going on in the pic of the junction?

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Smokebelching,CO2 making,child murdering planet raping,granny mugging,politically incorrect globally warming (or is it climate changing now it's getting colder?)thug.
That's what the government want you to believe of me. If they get back in I'm emigrating.

Near miss?
I think that is due to Google Mappings overlapping frames!
Look at the shadows of the cars travelling right to left, then the shadows of those waiting to turn in - two different patterns.
That would also explain why the white car is over the line in the lower half of the frame.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Maybe-but the frames don't usually line up quite that perfectly.

It might explain the shadows with nothing to cast them though.

_________________
Smokebelching,CO2 making,child murdering planet raping,granny mugging,politically incorrect globally warming (or is it climate changing now it's getting colder?)thug.
That's what the government want you to believe of me. If they get back in I'm emigrating.

and the pylon not lining up....

Ja... but you kept saying he mown down by "speeding driver".


We do have base fact: He rode through a red traffic light. He in dark clothing in dark lighting. She had glanced or used the Handy phone to text recently. She did not recall the speed as she see lights on green ahead und more than likely tried to get them on the green light.

She glance, she say in one press report - but not see. He also probably got to normal speed given the distance cycled from the photo.

Press focussed on what they heard the Prosecutor allege in the questionning. He not have the proof of this of this by the way. He should have been focussed on the text evidence. I really surprised there no report of the defence's handling in the papers.


I think the jury swayed that that strong balance of probability she did use the phone und of course we do not know the evidence police presented as to when this phone used. The insistence she was at 46 mph so precisely does make me wonder about this timing from the phone record to time of impact though - given that at 40 mph - you travel 19-20 yard or so per second But again this was speculation on part of prosecutor - but pounced on by the watching journalists.

But we always careful to say "per the facts as reported in the paper" as we just get the one sensationalised side to whip up the outrage over "naughty driver speeding" und draw away from the fact that he went through the red light.

My thoughts on Handy use are legendary as biggest und I dislike und cannot understand the "dependency und need to answer on firsty ringy ring" - though I suspect the naff embarrassing tune have something to do with this. Mine ist set to "traditional black Dial M for Murder" ring It switched off when in car. It live in drawer at work. I don't use phones very often though Those who get call from me are "honoured few"

I posted up the link to the Aachen local paper which reported over the collision with the emergency vehicle. There are other accidents reported if you type "Auto..Unfall"/Fahrrad Unfall" in the little search engine within Googly news for the foreign country. Their press reports not quite as finger wagging at either party in the regional presses. You get the base facts of what happened und journalist get the opinion of any by-standers as well as police comment - und - you get both side of the story too whereas in this one - the focus of the report was on what the prosecution alleged - but not balanced by defence's argument to contrary other than "the driver denied the allegations". There no comment as to the silliness of going through the red light either by the press reports.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

I have only quoted the reported words of the prosecutor. I COULD speculate as to whether the words were reported accurately, or if he knew what he was talking about....

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

D'oh! I thought there were 2 pylons there for some reason!

_________________
Smokebelching,CO2 making,child murdering planet raping,granny mugging,politically incorrect globally warming (or is it climate changing now it's getting colder?)thug.
That's what the government want you to believe of me. If they get back in I'm emigrating.

Prosecutor's questions, you quoted the questions, not the evidence.

Only there was no evidence of the speed being "46 mph" as he insisted

There was evidence that the cyclist disobeyed a red signal.

There was evidence of the phone having received a text message it having been read. Woman denied actually sending a text though. But as IG suggests.. the act of illegality was reading the message and I guess they have the forensics to establish this.

Evidence may not be all it seems - there have been mis-carriages of justice before.. Cadden case .. Went to appeal This one could do. based on the known facts.

But as my wife has already pointed out .. we always post "per the story in the papers" as these do not always give each side and are usually sensationalised.

Some are lurid speculation too.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

From the press reports I think that was the impression the counsel for the prosecution gave to the jurors...

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/