Safe Speed Forums

Now my views on drink drive und drug or prescribed drug drive or drive whilst tired or otherwise unfit are well known on this forum und also on PH where I normally chitter chatter

But this one too serious for the light banter of PH. It warrant serious discussion on here . .. und insight from weepej und hjeg1 or 2 por 3 or whatever

I do not ever drink a sip of wine if I intend to drive my car. (I never drank whilst pregnant or feeding my kittens either. They fed toppest wild feline milk from wild feline boobies belonging to wild feline who always ate proper.. though I did eat gherkin und chocolate paste sandwiches.. und I cannot at all fathom why I actually liked or even ate that )


But this old news from my home town's web news. ADo google for "Unfall" (accident) .. it tell you that Switzerland ist not utopia really

They introduced lower drink drive limit. At first it work. They see fewer KSI as result of drink drives. They hail as biggest success.

But ..

Barely 2 year later.. KSI with drunk driver .. increase. People "get used to this und take risks "und




.



Discuss.


Based on Swiss experience .. just how far do we benefit from a zero tolerance .. given 3 mph leeway on scam measured blips.. und almost zero tolerance on booze.

How much of this regress to mean?

Do draconian measure work?

Do people take chances given less police?

I show linky und the German text to prove I post accurately as this matter to one lurk in particular as I hear from "grapevine"

http://appenzell24.ch/page/5397/6

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

What you see here are "ordinary" people ignoring what they see as an excessively restrictive law after a trial period. Laws only work by consent of the public or by militaristic coercion. Hence, passing oppressive laws in a democracy does not work as the Government intends.

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

On another note

"Death by motor car" is actually an Extreamly rare event. even when it involves drunk drivers.

The VAST majority (IE arround 99.9999%) of legally drunk drivers will complete their journeys without actually killing anybody!

DD accidents tend to invove people who are either massivly over the limit (and very obviously drunk) or those where the accident was actually caused by something else but since the driver was "over the limit" that is put down as the official cause (Just like "speeding" )

Tougher laws only affect those who were unlikly to have accidents in the first place. those that are lkly to have the accidents are unlikly to be influanced by them.

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

I think that there needs to be some serious research into 'being drunk' !

I think that there *are* people that can drive (over a stipulated 'limit') - shall we say 'OK' or at least enough to get them home, without crashing at least ... in an A to B driving ability.

I NEVER drive if I have had a drink and especially wine, which I find is worse than 'spirits'. Personally I believe that I am 'over' my limit if I have had, half a glass of wine or one 'whisky liquor.

However I have seen people who have, had a lot to drink, and *appear* 'normal'. As they drink a lot and often, do they become accustomed? Now if they do, then, 'are they drunk', or even over their limit?
Do we all have our own limit? and is the current 'limit' test any good?

Now if *they* 'think' that they can drive fine, then any rule that tells them otherwise will not be respected. Sooner or later they will disobey the Law. Then they got home OK once - then twice, and sooner or later they are regularly driving 'drunk' but are they truly drunk ? 'Can' they drive OK.

Is there any research to prove things either way?
So first of all, is it a real problem. If accidents are increasing then what 'types - ABCD' of the public are causing the accidents, or is it a typical in-attention accident (etc) ?
Yet again should we not be trying to make people responsible for their own actions and stop trying to limit behaviour purely by a number!

If stiffer penalties where issued by a Court, surely this should, over time tell people to behave or else !
With extra Police, around to observe behaviours, and the chances of being caught are greater, so then people will question driving, if the 'know' they are likely of being caught - so it does act as a deterent - and for those that then 'get got' then they are likely to be the real drunks that do need a 'tap on the shoulder'.
The Police are also liked by the public and the Police feel that there job is worthwhile. They are also making more responsible decisions of authority and ,is all good, all round - You could say it was common sense !

I like the overall idea of a pub helping, but to make the landlord responsible for someone else and them driving is going too far imho.
Sometimes I have seen people have a 'key pool' and that has worked well.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

MADD Lies.

It is a little-known fact that, in Amerika, if anyone directly involved in a car crash had any alcohol on their breath or in their system at the time of the crash, it is recorded as an 'alcohol-related incident'.

Worst case example: Pedestrian 'pre-games' by having a drink or two or three before leaving his flat to go to the pub, gets killed by a sober driver. The accident is recorded as an 'alcohol-related crash', blaming alcohol solely, regardless of whether or not the accident was actually caused by inattention or distraction, road hazard, etc.

Naturally, a sober driver (BAC 0.00%) who chauffers legally drunk passengers, and gets into an accident with another sober driver chauffering legally drunk passengers will have their accident deemed an 'alcohol-related crash'.

More importantly, it is a little known fact that the vast majority of drunk driving accidents feature a driver or drivers whose Blood Alcohol Content is over .15 %. The number of accidents where one or both drivers have a BAC of .08% - .15% is outnumbered by driver BAC levels above .15% by at least 7 to 1.

However, despite the fact that the vast majority of people killed by drunk driving are killed by very drunk drivers above .15%, the vast majority of people arrested for 'drunk driving' have BAC levels between .08% and .15%

Here's another interesting fact: MADD founder Candy Lightner was fired by MADD's Board of Directors in 1985.Shortly thereafter, she joined the liquor lobby.

I am not for drinking and driving. I am also not for profiting from or criminalizing the actions of a reasonable and prudent majority.

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The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

Betrunkene Autolenker

Die Fahrzeuglenker halten die vor vier Jahren gesenkte Promillegrenze weniger ein, wie die Statistik zeigt. 2005 waren 686 Fahrzeuglenker gebüsst worden, weil sie bei Kontrollen mehr als 0,5 Promille Alkohol im Blut aufgewiesen hatten.

Im vergangenen Jahr wurden 751 Lenker gebüsst. Knapp zwei Drittel von ihnen wiesen sogar mehr als 0,8 Promille Alkohol im Blut auf.


http://www.espace.ch/artikel_486191.html


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In every single EU piece I have to date.. all seem to indicate that a lower tolerance does not at all seem to have any effect on attitude to drink und then driving a car


The answer has to be in education . as constant nag.


It must be remembered that the low limit does NOT MEAN BAN BUT HUGE FINE. A ban come into force at current UK/global level

The only exception are German probationeres who revert back to L status if found to have substance in system


I state again.. I do not drink booze if I intend to drive my car. Nor does Ted or others in family.

But I do not expect others to do as I do. I can only say what I do und hope some think I am quite OK right about this und may just think harder as result.


But it about return to manners.. responsibilty./ common sense.. decency ... self respect..which society fail to address in desire to make excuses for idiots und penalise those with more than one brain cell

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!