Safe Speed Forums

Folks,

My family have told me that I have become so obsessed with speed traps and cameras that I may be going crazy. After some years of having points on my license I finally got clear last year – bliss - and then - wham – another three points from a radar van: 40mph in a 30mph that I didn’t spot.

This is how much it has been affecting me.

1. I’ve researched and copied all the information I can on speed traps in my county. Then, by photocopying a county map in black and white, and marking all the fixed and mobile traps in red I can see a clear pattern emerge. The traps are on commuter roads leading in and out of the city, connecting to the smaller towns. The country roads which don’t connect in this way, crossing the commuter routes, are clear of traps.

Then, I have marked the trap free roads in green, and these are the roads that I will drive on when I enjoy a trip out for pleasure, so that I never need to drive on a speed trapped route when I drive locally for pleasure.

2. I will update my ‘green route’ map every fortnight and never leave home without it. The camera partnership claims to cover 3% of county roads, so I have a fair amount of road left to enjoy, although just one camera on a route will mean a diversion for me.

3. I have purchased both a snooper radar detector and a road angel GPS device and I never drive without them, keeping keenly aware of the road angel speed readout at all times.

4. My family tell me that I drive in a state of heightened perception these days and slam on the brakes if I see a yellow box or a white van anywhere at all. I peer at motorway bridges from a great distance and I always slow down to half the speed limit if I see any form of detection device. I usually call out “It’s a camera!! It’s a camera!!” in an agitated way, and then mutter about them for several miles after I’ve seen one. I have trained myself to look constantly for laybys and other spots where the vans may be lurking, with constant vigilance, and I don’t talk or relax when driving, much like a person playing a demanding computer game.

5. I have taken other (legal) anti camera precautions which I don’t want to discuss here.

6. I’ve stopped driving other people’s cars (much as I used to love driving) and prefer to be a passenger if I don’t have my protection devices with me.

If anyone has some advice on how I can add extra layers of protection, I will be most grateful.

e.

PS.

Two things.

While researching the fixed camera sites I came across figures for accidents at these sites in my county. In 1998 the total was 30, In 2007 the total was 31. According to my maths, this makes the effectiveness for reducing accidents precisely – Zero.

I mentioned my speed trap concerns to our local RAC man. His eyes glazed over and his voice deepened. He said, “I have six points myself.” He went on to tell me the whole story of his entrapment with the demeanour of someone who has come through hell, and remains psychologically scarred by the ongoing experience. I'm not alone.

Hi cooler and welcome.

To a certain extent I feel your pain. Back in the 80's, pre-speed camera era, I arrived on 10 penalty points due largely to being caught by police officers using radar guns. Much less sophisicated than today's devices but they still nailed me. I recall the magistrate looking over her glasses at me as she said
"Young man (i was back then), you do realise that one more transgression and we'll have no option but to suspend your licence?"

(Gulp) "Yes I know" I replied.

I had to face reality, and that reality was that I was going to have to change my driving and riding style or be banned. No use moaning about it, the police weren't going to stop using their bloody speed guns overnight so I was going to have to stop speeding. We could argue 'till the cows come home that its shouldn't have to be that way, but is.
It takes more self-control and awareness to achieve it, even to the extent of changing ones style of driving (e.g. gear selection). Some will argue that it makes a driver more dangerous and less conscious of other things but I've since passed my IAM test so I say <rasberry> to that
I don't feel that trying to play a game of cat and mouse dodging around all known camera sites will help in the long run - you'll cock up one day and snap another 3 pointer
Best of luck, and keep posting here. I've had a hell of a lot of useful tips and advice from some of the wiser folks aroind than myself.

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Rigpig,

Thanks for the support. Thing is, I'm not really a speeder, I just miss the signs sometimes (advanced age?).

OK, I like to clear the carbs now and then with a short burst of acceleration somewhere (I have a performance car and a Kwaki), but I'm
aware that the roads don't exist for these machines in the UK. At 30mph the Kwaki is dead as a doornail, and so am I!

I have the IAM test too, as a police driver many moons ago. But these days the roads have changed dramatically and I just don't get the pleasure of reading the road anymore. I can't remember the last time I had the fun of taking a line through a corner, braking before entry and then powering out again. There is always someone in front, or the paranoia about the cameras.

I've lost the pleasure.

e.

PS - Maybe it's time for a trackday. I'll be the oldest guy on the circuit!

Hi Cooler.



Sorry to hear of your predicament. "Don't speed" is one answer but this is in practice almost impossible, and it will make you less safe because you'll be concentrating on the wrong factors. Why should you make yourself less safe for the sake of a policy which we're told is supposed to make us more safe? It's just one way in which speed cameras are actually making things worse.

Anyway, I have a suggestion for you which will give you an extra "layer of protection" as you put it. Have a look at these posts:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... blin#24205
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... blin#24265
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... blin#24464
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... blin#66762
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... blin#69836
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... blin#79840
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... blin#94661
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... lin#102055

They're all from a poster called Cooperman, who generally seems to know what he's talking about. He says that you can legitimately register your car, and even licence, in the Republic of Ireland. As you may or may not know, the scammers don't bother pursuing foreign-registered cars, as it's "not cost-effective". So if you were to do that, you'd pretty much be immune to remote enforcement (although you'd still have to watch out for police).

You do have to set up a company in Ireland and do a couple of other things. It's not that much of a hassle or expense but it's enough to stop everyone doing it just in case they pick up points. Still, if I was in your situation, I'd seriously consider it.

I haven't seen Cooperman on here lately but you could try sending him a private message if you want to know more. If you do that then the forum software should automatically send him an email telling him he's got a PM. Or maybe someone here could contact him on your behalf.

HTH anyway.

_________________
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"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

Bombus,

Thanks for the info; I'll look into it.

Yes, you are right. I'm driving like a robot and looking for all the wrong things on the road. In my experience nervous people are always more prone to accidents than confident people, and speed traps make a lot of people nervous.

Also there is this feeling that as long as we are on the right side of the speed limit, then everything will be all right. This is plainly wrong, and the stats around speed camera sites are clear evidence of this. There has been no reduction in accident rates at these sites in my county.


We are not supposed to eat an apple in the car, but people drive along staring into their road angels as if their life and livelihood depends on it!

e.

Quite frankly I'm shocked that this thread has made even 12 hours without some smart-arsed troll or other pithily pointing out that you can avoid tickets by not speeding.

Avoiding scam-heavy routes is nothing unusual, albeit not quite to the same level of commitment you have shown, but it can have the effect of displacing traffic, rather that solving anything.

What county do you live in, if you don't mind me asking? Many 'safety camera partnerships' helpfully bury an enforcement schedule on their websites, but I'm assuming you already know this.

Johnny,

I'm in North Somerset, and the Safecam partnership does indeed post a schedule, including mobile traps. I have printed the whole thing out and marked the sites on my map, which I carry with me at all times.

Let's hope that the schedule is correct and updated.

C.

Aaargh! Somerset!

I'm in the extreme south of same, near Sherborne.

While we're on about Somerset, I'm a frequent visitor to that county, as a friend of mine recently moved there - to North Barrow. Apparently, the west country counties of Wiltshire, Dorset and Somerset have the most speed cameras! But as my friend has pointed out, the speed limit through North Barrow is 60. It's a joke, because one day on my way home from there, I had to negotiate an S-bend when I came head to head with a tractor towing a trailer laden with hay. It was so wide it touched the hedges on both sides of the road!

- Proof, if proof were needed, that the posted speed limits are no indicator of the safe speed for any road, and that we must use our own discretion at all times. So why can't we be allowed to do that everywhere, instead of being TOLD what speed is safe for us?

Cooler - glad you have that Road Angel. I have one too! My ladyfriend does not approve of it at all! I wind her up by saying that I have it so I can speed where I want to!

But that's not why I have it at all. Even before I had it, I'd never been prosecuted for speeding in about 35 years of driving. But as you have observed, things have changed, and it's so easy to be caught out and run foul of the law these days. That's why I have mine - not to speed with impunity, but to avoid being caught by a change of speed limit, poor signage, hidden street lights, or forgetting that there's a 30 limit because the road looks safe for 50 - which it probably is.

If you think that's what speed limits are for then you are sorely mistaken.

They represent the maximum speed you should travel at, not the speed you should travel at, and certainly not the speed one should be travelling at round corners on country lanes.

Diesel,

We have the same thing near our home. A 30mph limit gives way to the national limit just before a tight S bend with a junction on it. But the black and white signs are there - in black and white!

My theory is that the powers that be haven't touched the NSL signs in decades, except to take them away. There are loads of anomilies like this.
Maybe the DoT don't have the money spare to do this kind of non essential housekeeping.

C.

Well then help me out here. Last month I was travelling from Bath up the A46 to get to J18 of the M4 to come home. Several miles of this road are dual carriageway, but with a limit. But many of the twisting narrow lanes running off this dual carriageway had signs positioned at the entrance to the road.

So why the need for a 50 limit on the A46 dual carriageway? Why are motorists not allowed to decide for themselves that exceeding 50 on this road might represent "Driving at speeds too fast for the road and traffic conditions" as HC125 puts it? - serious question

Let's read that again shall we: -



You posted in the context of a 60 speed limit being a joke, the way you've written it presumably because you thought that you could or should be doing the indicated maximum of 60, but had you been you would've almost certainly back ended the tractor.

Three options as far as I can see: -

1. Reduce the max limit there to 20 or 30, just in case there's something round the corner

2. Remove the limit totally and trust that people will drive around the corner at a speed that wouldn't mean they whack into a practically stationary vehicle

3. Leave the limit as it is and trust that people will drive around the corner at a speed that wouldn't mean they whack into a practically stationary vehicle

I'm all for option three.

Weepej. Please you are doing a Wendy Alexander. Answering questions that were not asked.

The point about the speed limit was that as it is a lane liable to be used by large tractors that the posted speed limit might be too high.

Do please pay attention.

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Oh, was it?!?!

So you're with the lower the limit brigade then?