Safe Speed Forums

I'd strongly recommend joining "which", as they seem to be the only ones that properly understand and apply consumer law. Everyone else, including the CAB and to a certain degree the TSO seem to have a set of beliefs that are completely wrong. If you get involved in chasing something like that up I'm sure you'll see a lot of parallels!

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Thanks. I have to correct an error here - it wasn't 2 years + 2 months, it was 3 years + 2 months (=38 months).

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

AFAIUI it is ultimately a case of what a court would deem to be a reasonable life span of the item in question, bearing in mind both what it is and how expensive it was. I have certainly read about cases involving televisions and video recorders which have been settled in favour of the claimant at up to 5 years old.

If I paid (say) £1000 for a laptop computer I'd expect it to last 5 years without anything more than minor problems. I'd also say that the fact that it is irrepairable may well strengthen your case, as it demonstrates beyond any doubt that it's life has ended. If it was a decent brand and a respectable price that would help too...

Given the likely sort of money involved I'd probably go all the way to small claims with it, as the cost of doing so is relatively little - you'd have a lot to gain and not much to lose! Indeed, once you start down that track there is also this concept of offering them a 66% settlement in advance of the court case which they'd be very brave not to go for.

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I have been involved in production car engine developoment over the last 15 years. Cam belts are a very good solution to the problem and have a good reliability record under normal circumstances. The problem is in two areas.

1) many manufacturers played with plastic tensioners to reduce cost. When these started to fail the were to be replaced by dealers. VW and GM had problems along these lines. The problem is if the car is serviced outside of the dealer network, as many cars are nowadays.

2) they are not changed on time. This is critical.

I have never seen a failed cam belt that was not caused by other mitigating circumstances. And yes I have had a Passat that failed a cam belt at 78K when it was due to be replaced at 80. It was serviced by halfords! There are cars such as the Fiat Coupe turbo which costs £1000 for a cam belt service so they tend to get sold on about that time. Any one with a diesel discovery is in for a shock whe they need the belt changing. Thats why some people don't bother and they end up with a scrap engine. If I bought a car with a belt I would have it anf the tensioner replaced straight away, regardless of the mileage.

Because of the need to extend service intervals and to reduce servicing costs cars are going back to chains again which should last the life of the engine. It also alows car designers to reduce the packaging space under the bonnet.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Some of the problems relate to software. For example, a good laptop bought 5 years ago might have had a PII CPU, perhaps 266 MHz, with a 2.5 gig disk and maybe 32 MB of RAM, running Windows 98 or NT 4. The software on such a system, especially the OS, is now somewhat out of date. Even the application software, e.g. the browser and email client and the office package, would not be compatible with new web site and documents, and there would be none of the (much needed) Microsoft Security updates. New software (WIN2K or better and new applications) would barely fit on the 2.5 gig disk, would bust the 32 MB RAM limit and run as slow as molasses on the 266 CPU. So, all in all, a laptop, like all computers, has obsolescence built in via software progress and Moores Law, although it may have hardware planned obsolescence as well.

The difference is that a PC from 5 years ago can be upgraded at low cost, because better/faster/bigger generic parts are cheaper now than then. Unfortunately, many parts in laptops are not generic, making them harder and much more expensive to source. Also, OS support favours modern peripherals, so you will find that new OSes may not support old devices, and manufacturers may not write their own device drivers because it costs quite a bit for that kind of low level programming. So it may not even be possible to upgrade your system.

All in all, this means that laptop computers are viewed in the industry as ephemeral products, here today and gone tomorrow and subject to constant renewal and massive depreciation. Couple that with the tendency for people to (e.g.) drive over them in jeeps while backing out of the drive, and they are a dead-loss!

It all generates quite a bit of work, and that is all very well if you are an executive with ego problems, holed up in a hotel in Iowa with a need to get email, or a salesman who needs to make a PowerPoint pitch. But for general use, laptops are a headache, and should be avoided.

Engineering on washing machines and cars, on the other hand, moves with glacial speed. Only now, “smart” manufacturers put miniature computers into them(!), and suddenly all the planned obsolescence of laptops can now be applied to washing machines and cars, making them hard to fix, subject to constant renewal and massive depreciation! That is why I maintain an old washing machine with no computer and a 15 year old car. Things with no value cannot depreciate much.

It is heartening to hear from Gizmo that manufacturers are considering belt life in engine design – I guess they give with one hand, and take away with the other.

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£1000 I thought the £450-ish that Vauxhall charge to do the belts on a V6 Omega was a pain in the wallet, but maybe I should consider myself lucky...

Bangernomics is more cost effective. A cam belt for my Ford costs 99 pence on e-bay. You need a socket set and a screw driver. With the money saved over two years, I can think of putting in a log cabin and hot tub!

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Log Cabin FFS!

Won't someone think of the trees?

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
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If you are thinking of buying a car with between 60 and 100K on the clock always check how much a cam belt swap costs. It is a common reason for traiding in if it is something "exotic" In some cars it is an engine-out job.

late 70s and 80s Fords are a doddle, and cheap but most modern cars are a pain because of all the additional furnature that gets in the way.

The other thing to look out for is the reliability of the dealer. If you have a Transit 2.5 diesel for example the bottom pulley bolt MUST be replaced because it is a stretch bolt. It holds the oil pump gear on. If it comes loose your oil system fails. I have seen this on numerous occasions. Most garages won't bother replacing the bolt.

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Speed camera policy Kills

If you want to ruin your engine thats up to you. I would only ever buy a belt from a main dealer. £10-£20 a time. It's worth every penny.

You get what you pay for. Would you buy a set of brake pads for 99p?

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Speed camera policy Kills

That's right. Also, my J reg Corolla is dead easy to do things on. I am worried that I might run out of maintainable jallopies, and the only thing available will be unmaintainable modern trash. Are there any decent newish cars, or are they all pre-obsoleted junk piles?



Stretch bolts are a little money spinner. A few pounds here and a few pounds there, and pretty soon, it ain't worth fixing.

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The whole car's not worth £20!



Where can I get 'em? Just joking

PS: my mate from work is off today. Seems his newish 8 cyclinder 3 litre 4 wheel drive fat wheeled jeep/people carrier thingy (which he was going to use for a skiing holiday in the Alps next week) has been playing up again, misfiring/computer/do dah thing or other, and now he can't go unless he can get it fixed today! I tell him - if only you had a Ford Sierra like me!

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Just because it is an old banger does not make the spares that much cheaper, just that there are more chinese copy parts on the market.

If you want to do it on the cheap that is up to you, but don't start moaning about reliability.

The standards that apply to OEM parts are a world apart from the cheap spares stuff. In most cases you don't get value for money in the long run.

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Speed camera policy Kills

The AA take care of that aspect of things! I mean, I change the bits before they fall off, but only just before! Thanks for the tip though. I'm being ridiculous again. I'd get a decent belt as well - I'd pay up to £6!

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I had a Sierra once. One of Ford's specials that didn't work properly when it rained. Or when it snowed. Or was a bit too sunny. Sure you get the picture. Typically it liked to condense water inside the dizzy cap so it started to misfire and cut out. And it also once munched its own final drive.
If I'd been Elvis, I'd have shot it.

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What year was yours?

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Claire and I shared a Sierra Sapphire 2.0 GSi G reg for about 5 years from about 1994 to about 1999. We didn't have any real problems with it. About once every three months the ECU used to crash while driving and start manic overfuelling. It just needed a reboot. I learned to reboot it while driving by turning the ignition off and on again. Good car - no really - it was a good car.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I had a H and a J. The J was a very fast 2.0 Ghia, but I only tested it’s speed once or twice – before I went on the speed-limit-wagon (so to speak). The H I still have, it's a 1.8. Both cars rusted in the same place, and both had problems with the noddy computer that controlled the indicators, hazards and alarm. I have to reboot it once or twice a month. Apart from that, and the usual wear and tear, it's been OK. Over 6 years, I have changed or have had changed brakes, exhaust, battery, head gasket, new engine from a Transit, clutch, valve seals, starter (twice), tyres (twice), fuel tank (rotten with rust). So it hasn't been cost free motoring by any standards. Yet his little lot averages around £300 a year, which is about 1 month payment on a new one, so it’s OK. But it’s time to get rid now, and I don’t know what to replace it with. All new car designs are loaded with complexity. My pal has a car with a panel and lights come on now and again. He takes it in to have them tweaked on the computer and they charge him £150 a pop, even when there’s nothing much wrong!

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It depends on whether you consider "newish" in terms of miles covered or age. If you'd be happy for a low-mileage (under 50,000 miles) car about eight to twelve years old, consider an import from Japan. Even better than a normal car, get yourself a 4x4 because they are built to be more durable than a family saloon and people like Milners are an Aladdin's cave of low-cost spares for off-roaders.

However, the ultimate in cheap-to-maintain, goes-on-forever has to be Land Rover. AIUI, over 70% of all Land Rovers ever built are still in regular service. There are enough companies out there making and selling bits for that marque that you can get anything (including a replacement chassis) for any Land Rover that is old enough to be out of manufacturer's warranty!

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Will

I have had 4 sierras from new as company cars. Loved em. The last of the rear wheel drive mid sized saloons. The first one in 84. My last one was a K reg 1.8LX. One of the last to be built. I took it to 115000 miles. Still on the same exhaust...

I only had one breakdown in about 300,000 miles of Sierra motoring and that was a punctured radiator. Had paint problems with one of them. It was never sorted.. Apart from that they were great.

The only problems with Sierras that I have heard of are the DOHC 2litre version where the crank sensor is prone to failure due to water ingress at the connector.

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Speed camera policy Kills