Safe Speed Forums

You'll be waiting a while, I suspect.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

I can show you where Wurzel admitted they DONT prevent a crime being committed...

NO vehicle pictured speeding by a speed camera is STOPPED - the offence is allowed to continue.
In fact, camera partnerships hope that by placing a second camera close to the first, they can prosecute you for the same offence twice, and double their revenue.
Actually stopping the offence is low on their priorities!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Then of course you have the real issue :
Is speeding dangerous anyway,

Since 75% of motorists have admitted to speeding, and there is yet only 5% of accidents attributed to speeding, it leaves one thinking - well what are the main issues that are failing us on the roads.
Plus take away the drunks and thefts of motor vehicles speeding and that 5% is down to approx 2%.

So then if we look at in-attention, frustration, and bad observation, they are being shown to be clear leaders in the cause of road accidents, yet they are nothing like as easy to enforce. And since the government need to answer to the public (electorate), and be seen to be doing something, then this is an easy answer. Something is better than nothing which is proven to not be the case according to the TRL595...

So we say stop wasting time money effort, criminalising the general public for numeric offenses un-necessarily and start focusing on the real issues to hand.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

CCTV, among many: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Release ... e08d4c5f5c

Speed cameras: Any post on this or any other motoring site where people mention how they are forced to drive slower these days due to not wanting any more points on their licence, or about how they don't feel that they can enjoy the "freedom" they used to have to go fast.

Second request now ---as RobinXe said "PLEAS PRODUCE PROOF OF YOUR STATEMENTS ".

Since you have failed to do so , can we now presume that you do ohave recourse to this proof .(And as a result you will now shut up and go away )

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Okay, so maybe I wasn't quite clear enough. Please cite cources, that are not self-congratulatory stroking from the propogators of cameras, that show they have reduced crime. Those would be things like independant studies, which show that after introducing cameras, the offences they were designed to reduce, have reduced. You'll come up sorely lacking, unless you have found something I haven't been able to, despite constant effort.

You're definitely on a loser as far as speed cams are concerned, since the number of tickets issues has proportionately outpaced the rise in camera numbers, per the government's own figures.

If your CCTV source is one amongst many, then you should have no problems whatsoever in acquiescing to my requests. Please do not do yourself a disservice by responding with rhetoric, allow your clear-cut figures to speak for themselves.

Thanks...

(Funny how official stats are fine when they support the SS position, but not when they do not )

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manc ... 299417.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/4459631.stm

http://archive.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/ ... 45770.html

http://archive.thurrockgazette.co.uk/20 ... 30990.html

Should get you started, at least

Now imagine if there was an easy way to identify any person caught on CCTV (as there is with people caught on speed cameras)...

Now imagine that the potential for them to be placed anywhere that people could commit crime (easier with speed cameras, as the only place you can commit the crime is the public road)...

Now imagine that they only record footage when they detect a mugging, stabbing or whatever taking place, removing the "big brother" aspect for the other law abiding people...

Please could you indicate to me which one of your links points to an empirical study, rather than a media report?

As for your imaginary circumstances, they are clearly disproven by the disproportionate rise in speeding tickets.

Weasel Gumdrops...Liebchen...

The only way these could identify person would be if person's biometric doo-dahs ob record und only then if they look at cam when committing the crime . which would be most unlikely..


As for only recording when it happen.. this then not record the important evidence leading up to the incident.

Which make you yet again most illogical in thought

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Imagine:
SMASH.... plate glass shop window broken in town centre after nightclubs close.
Back at police station in CCTV room: "ooh that looks a bit like Dan Smith doesn't it?"
Dan Smith's house 3 days later...
"What the Hell is this. A NIP asking me to identify who broke an effing window....."

See the problem. No-one else other than a motorist is expected to provide information as to his possibility of involvement in an alleged crime.
When we start dishing out NIPs to all and sundry for any suspected involvement in petty crime, or even to murderers and rapists then we have equality. Until then we have harassment.

Only in the short-term.
The current climate, with regards to speeding and other motoring offences, will soon be seen by other social groups (!).
It relies on the fact that most motorists don't see themselves as criminals, and do not identify with other motorists anyway ("there but for the grace of God".....)
Governments response to the charge of "motorists are being persecuted" will be to also persecute others, thereby everyone will be seen to be equal (all wasters).
Many years ago one of my sons chose to relieve himself of the school presence by not going. This was (I thought) solved by taking him to school and handing him over at the door. But he then walked straight out as soon as I (or his mother) had gone. The teachers could not stop him, not allowed to.
This went-on until the [inevitable] summons arrived.
Naturally, I obtained legal advice. The legal adviser told me that pleading not guilty, even with all I (and his mother) had done to assure his attendancy, was not going to happen. Failing to assure attendance at school is an "always guilty" offence. Of course, I COULD (and did) plead not guilty, but the conviction was assured, and everyone knew it from the start. But it made the "education welfare" officers look prats when the case came, they had no paperwork and the case had to be adjourned....several times, such was the degree of stupidity.
The point being, the points of reference are being changed all the time.
As has been seen on here, many times, the various "agencies" (secure jobs, well paid and good pensions) change their stance to suit the prevailing conditions. Speeding camera partnerships become safety camera partnerships, become road safety parnerships. Independent experts, testifying to the 101% accuracy of speeding detection hardware, turn out to be paid employees of firms with hostile views to motorists and interests in obtaining money through the more intense use of said items. They all rely, heavily, on the fact that the vast majority of people just want to get-on with their lives without hassle, having enough to get through as it is....what with taxation taking large chunks of their money.
The we have the bastions of democracy, the "free" press.
Free to report what their owners allow them to report, depending on the colour of their allegiance (political)

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

by bombus on Wed Apr 09, 2008 23:29



What, just like I'm still waiting for you to justify so many of the negative things you said about/to me? Do you have the slightest self-awareness as to how hypocritical you are?

Will you even answer these questions, or will you simply cry "trooooooollllllllllllllllllllll" like you do whenever anyone with a different opinion to you says something?

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Before you moan about middle-lane hoggers, check that you yourself are obeying all the rules of the road.

Hey Robin!!! So are you going to tell us all how I was "proven" wrong by you other than by self-congratulatory means? Or are you either going to admit that you were lying in that I wasn't proven wrong, or admit that you can't say that someone has been proven wrong simply because you believe it? Or are you just going to leave us all thinking that you're incredibly hypocritical like Bombus?



Yes, please do not do yourself a disservice by responding with bluster etc. Just allow all your evidence to speak for itself.

Ta.

By the way, it's not whether the number of tickets is increasing but whether the percentage of people breaking the speed limit is decreasing, and it is (although I don't have any sources to hand).

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Before you moan about middle-lane hoggers, check that you yourself are obeying all the rules of the road.

Yes, exactly.

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Before you moan about middle-lane hoggers, check that you yourself are obeying all the rules of the road.

No, the percentage is not decreasing.
The more intense use of satnav in cars/trucks is [in my opinion] leading to a general lowering of average speed, and also to the observance of speed limits. But only within the area regulated by speed detection equipment. Once away from the "warning zone" the traffic speeds up.
Many of the users only use them because of the speed camera warning feature/s.
Those using them, for that purpose, travel at the speed limit for that area and thence lead to others travelling at the correct [legal] speed.
This is very noticeable, because those who are driving "to sc warnings" slow down hundreds of metres before the actual camera.
The most noticeable lack of attention to speed limits is in 20 mph zones, where nearly everyone breaks the limit/s. And most of those LIVE within the controlled zone. Work that one out.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Which mean that the devices are very instrumental. I also think then that they can induce a "feel of speed" which can manifest in keeping compliant beyond the warning zones as well

But .. sigh.. the 20 mph residentials. It noticeable that the people using these roads are the ones who live on these roads. It also noticeable that the cyclists are travelling faster than the cars on some of them too

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Quite easy. The 20mph limits are too slow (except in very particular locations) so most people ignore them.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Folks

Please don't "bait" Hjeg2. He is on final warning, finds it necessary (understandably, though not condoned) to respond with a similar tone - and is already on final warning.

The last thing I want to do is add more warnings or take HJ2 out of the game for a couple of weeks.

All = please stick to the points and if you can do so without barbs we'll all be the better for it.

Did he post? I hadn't noticed....

_________________
Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)