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Another knee jerk proposal with little thought.

First of all (yet again) there is no mention of how many accidents occur caused by someone who is WITHIN the current limit. All I see is:



Which sounds pretty meaningless to me.

And althought driving whilst over the limit is becoming more socially unacceptable across all ages, I'm pretty sure there are some young drivers who still think it's ok to do so - perhaps due to peer pressure from others who aren't drinking on a night out?

And then lets say the limit ends up being more like 20mg - the chances of getting done the morning over would be huge and then you can kiss goodbye to more pubs as they lose revenue due to young people staying in.

But then, I been castigated by folks on here for suggesrting that (AS IN THE BEST OF INDUSTRIES,ESPECIALY THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY ) that a zero tolerance level is about right .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

A further problem is that it would make police enforcement of the law more difficult as the police would have to take a view of the age of each suspect. If over-21s kept getting dragged down to the station even though they were wholly legal it would a tremendous waste of time and effort.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Peter,
We have digital hand held Alco meters which mean we would know how much alcohol they have in there breath at that time,so,if you know there age then its pretty easy to work out whether they should be having alcohol or not.

On the other hand people say that it is becoming socially unacceptable to drink and drive, and its on the decline, I dont know where you got that idea from,its just as bad as ever if not worse,what is probably on the increase at a time traffic officers are on the decline. I will give you an example over a four day period of afternoon shifts I arrested 4 drivers for being over the drink drive limit 2 of them where early 20s and only been driving a short time.

If it was left to me you would not be able to drive if you had consumed alcohol as it does effect your thinking and your reasoning,example would be they dont stop when requested and when caught asked why they did not stop classic answer " I THOUGHT I COULD GET AWAY FROM YOU ".

It would be nice if we all could guarantee that if we drink and drive we wont get involved in a collision blameworthy or not,but we cant and one life destroyed or ruined by it is one too many,its great watching it on the telly or driving past it on the roads,but honestly you want to try telling a parent that there young son or daughter has just been killed or seriously injured in a collision either as a driver or worst a passenger.

It make me cry sometimes trully when i see the effect on the family,I like other police officers see it from start to finish and believe me its not nice,and its not only drink that kills drugs to along with other anti social behaviour behind the wheel. I am not being a kill joy just being realistic and want young people to grow up and be old,i dont suppose thats too much to ask these days is it. (rant over)
Stephen

I suspect that this is less to do with "Safety" and more to do with attmpting to produce a generation of people who do not/cannot drive!

It would be interesting to know if anybody has bothererd to do a full socio/economic analysis of this proposed policy?

(with 100,000 bans a year (alledgedly) I strongly suspect that even current DD policy causes considerably more socio/economic damage than it prevents! )

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Interesting. An alcohol level of zero effectively means that 17 to 20 year olds who have a car can't drink at all for 3 years. This will either fix binge drinking or reduce the number of young drivers on the road. A win-win for the Stasi New Labour Government.

Except that all young people will do is say "sod it" and drive their uninsured, unregistered throwaways anyway.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Or take cough medicine.

Or use mouthwash.

Or eat food cooked with alochol as an ingredient.

Yes, but unless they have their driving licences with them (which is not currently a legal requirement) it is not easy to work out how old they are. You would end up taking a lot of people aged 21, 22, 23, 24 etc down to the station only to find out they aren't under 21 and therefore have committed no offence, thus wasting huge amounts of police time.

Mind you, that problem would be solved if people had to carry identity cards at all times

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Peter- Still not a problem a quick licence check via DVLA and that reveals all so they are either telling the truth or lieing either way its up to them it will be there time they are wasting,but all in all the system works most of the time, with a little bit of digging to reveal all.
Stephen

what construction industry is that then? last time I worked the big sites I was often sober for about 2 hours a day (between breakfast [sober up] and lunch [back in the pub])

As for the topic, like OP mentions where is the data for 0-80mg driver crashes? without that, this is nothing more than simplistic knee-jerk balderdash designed to do nothing more than create the appearance of doing something about a problem while impinging yet again on our freedom, and self defeating in that the more responsibility you take from people, the less responsible they'll become.

A.K.A. typical new-labour policy.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

Indeed, it is exactly the same level of intellectual analysis that gives us the belief that even one mph over the speed limit is dangerous.

The whole point of the Safe Speed campaign is that road safety policy should be evidence based rather than based on ignorance and prejudice.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

This is also a reaction to an increase in the number of youngsters driving over the current limit, as was pointed out in the previous thread, how reducing the threshold is supposed to achieve anything when the problem is people ignoring the existing threshold, I don't know.

It'd be as stupid as banning handguns because loads of people hold them illegally... oh.

I can see it becoming law, hailed as a success through the usual statistical manipulation, then extended to cover everyone, championed by millions of fools who are "happy that the temptation is removed"

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

A zero limit is a clear one though. The normal limit is totally dependent on body size, food consumed and numerous other factors. Zero is zip, nada, no drink at all, end of. The 'I've just used mouthwash' is the preserve of the recalcitrant drunks trying to get away with it. What breath level would a helping of sherry trifle actually create? I'm only happy to help with that kind of research

But even saying that there needs to be some clear research on just how many young folk are driving while under the influence but under the current limit and what effect this has on their driving. Age isn't the issue. You should not be on the road while impaired, for whatever reason and at whatever age. Driving is still a responsibility. Freedom to have a drink and get in the car is freedom to kill as far as I am concerned. This is where the personal freedom stops. Once alcohol has been consumed, however small, you are no longer fit to judge what is safe and what isn't. Ditto most drugs. Every drug affects self awareness and judgement so it follows the taker can't be in charge of deciding what is appropriate even though they feel they are the best ones to judge! Most drink drivers claim they were fit to drive and were driving fine which is why I don't think anyone that has had any booze at all can truly judge whether they are fit to drive.

There will be some adverse consequences but as most of the youth of today are pie eyed and suffering from liver failure then stopping them drinking might actually be a really good idea

It would be far more sensible to have the zero / near zero to allow for boozy trifles on all those that have passed a test within the 4 preceding years so that it doesn't unfairly restrict just young drivers. In fact it is probably illegal under age discrimmination anyway...

This is all very fine sentiment, but what is being done about the 80% of KSI's caused by simple SHIT DRIVING? Hammering at the thin end of the wedge is simply pissing windward - minority relief that creates a bigger mess overall.

Alcohol will always be consumed and there will always be those who are prepared to 'bounce off the Devil'. Trying to eradicate this makes Canute's task pail into insignificance.

Oh. and perlease don't throw up the old 'what-if' about the demise of my family/friends - I would find the perpetrator and ensure their sole sustenance was their own limbs until their own demise.






And breathe...

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Aquila



Licat volare si super tergum aquila volat...

(Devil’s advocate mode 'on'). I can see where Donaldson is coming from. No-one, and I mean NO-ONE, would notice any difference in my demeanour or driving after a pint or two of ale. I generally don’t have any drink when I drive actually, preferring instead to take a taxi or a lift from a friend, or even stay over.

If I do have a drink, however, if anything I actually tone-down my driving, Can anyone honestly say, in general, an 18 year old would react the same?

I think the effect on said 18 year old is more likely to exaggerate their youthful exuberance but I agree that it needs to be researched rather the knee jerk reaction we see all too often these days.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Far be it from me to repeat what I've said elsewhere on this, but the problem drink-drivers are not the ones that are just over the limit, and certainly not those who have between 50 & 80 mg in their blood.

The problem drink-drivers are the ones who have a skinful in the fairly confident knowledge that enforcement of the current level is only patchily enforced. No point lowering the limit with the current enforcement levels.

But, hey, it's easier to pull people over in the morning on commuter roads with 51mg in their blood from the night before than it is to catch farmer boys hammering back from the village pub with eight Stellas inside them.

Zero tolleralce will only work if the drinkometers are 100% accurate.

More numeric limits won't solve anything anyway.

Maybe people are drinking more to get around the pain and suffering which the police and councils are causing us by restricting our roads?

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Andrew.

I'm with those who are against the zero limit - we need laws throughout our society which promote personal responsibility (and punish failure to exercise it) rather than just regulate...

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I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

Mate -we disagree else where - but time I'm behind you 1000%
It's not SPEEDING MOTORISTS OR DRUNK DRIVERS THATS WRONG WITH BRITAINS ROADS - IT'S A FAILED POLICY ,WITH FLAWED PRINCIPLES AND LACK OF TRAINED ENFORCERS

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Sounds like the usual Donaldson b*llocks to me.

Has he been enobled yet?