Safe Speed Forums

I went to a popular Midlands biker venue this evening, (anything up to ~1000 bikers and none-bikers to see and enjoy the night), where many biker police were also in the pub parking zone complete with a stand and flashing light to say 'we are here'.

They weren't there to catch speeders or wheelie merchants’ passing by. They were there to help and give advice and, IMHO, heal the ever-growing rift between the public and police.

On their stand they had pictures showing, in very graphic detail, KSI victims. They also had a laptop showing a loop-tape video of a biker who was killed in the most horrific way you can imagine as he was crushed under a HGV.

I've always believed shock tactics work! (My friend said it made him feel sick!) I'm not a paramedic but I do pick up the pieces from survivors.

There wasn't one single biker who saw that video that pulled a wheelie or gave their bike a fistful tonight.

Shock tactics do work. I don't know why they are not shown every night on every channel after the watershed.

The governments answer? Speed cameras and speed kills!

There is so much more which could be done other than speed cameras both for safety sake and the betterment of society.

I despond; I really do

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

BT- UK is in a serious way - my quote on roads is like the NHS problems - this weekend I almost lost a daughter - miscarriage ,and blood loss -six pints in 2 miles -but she tried to see a doctor -to be told to ring back tomorrow ,as there are no appointments today ..Next day - ambulance on 999

Britain is hemoraging skills and safety at an alarming rate .

This country need a transfusion of common sense -not of targets .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Zero limits will never work, (the gov. have been told time and time again), as there are so many 'normal ways' in which we intake small amounts of alcohol (medicines). So someone that has never been to the 'pub' to drink, or had a drink at home or at work, might still be then classed as 'drunk'.
Yet again we see the Gov concentrating on targets and numeric exercises, without considering the true consequences of it's 'be seen to be doing anything tactics'.
I 'choose' never to drink and drive. It is the 'right and responsible choices' for all driving aspects, that we need to inspire into all drivers young and old.
I did an interesting experiment recently. I got drunk with a friend who has one of the official calibrated units that officially check building sites etc... and after 1 glass of wine, I felt drunk, after 2, I was definitely drunk and was even slightly 'wobbly', BUT the unit (still), showed me as being 'well within the limit'. So I managed a third glass, just for the experiment (I certainly would never had had another - I am not a big drinker at all anyway), we waited the 10 minutes, and finally it showed me just over the legal limit.
And before you ask, the unit had recently come back from it's regular calibration checking.
She was amazed, I found it fascinating ... but I have always known that (and esp with wine) I become 'drunk' quickly, but the readings will lag my drunk-ness by a long, long way.
There is no way even after the first glass, that I would have even possibly for even a split second have considered driving, never mind after the second or even the third.

The Government should be asking - as usual - how do we change an attitude ? How do we get drivers to behave responsibly ?
There are various psychology tests that have proven very useful in Australia with the younger generation, and made them question their motives, which is most interesting. When you find the real 'causes' to behaviour then you can alter perceptions and then 'correct' or show better attitudes and alter behavioural patterns thereafter.
This Government persists, in following, numbers as the 'b-all and end-all' of safety, which in Safe Speed's opinion is extremely worrying, & wrong. What research has been done to back these actions ? Is that research unbiased ? It speaks to me of another 'do something' law.

The bereaved loved one's should also be up in arms about this too, as it is likely again to send out the wrong messages.
Where is the young driver supposed to be learning about responsibilities, when the gov tells them to drive to a speed limit and only have juice and you'll be safe. How utterly sad.
And what about the hypocricy of this too - for years we say up to 'X' amount for wine and spirits, but now there is an issue, we will just ban you. It doesn't even have facts to back it up ! Just pure, lets' just punish everyone in that age group. Maybe they hope that by treating adults like children they will behave like them and tell on the one's, that 'cheat'. No one society is in a mess !
We need to help guide and teach drivers, let them decide if they can 'cope' within the 'legal' and allowed limits or not. I know that I certainly cannot and therefore I just do not drink and drive/ride, but that is not true for everyone, and of course some are the other way too. But the legal limit levels help to enforce a difficult 'level' and the Police can then judge too at the time ....
I dare say in years to come we will all have our own 'personal limit' once they find the root cause of 'our oxygen deprivation' in the blood levels that make us 'drunk' !! (I was aware of a great animation to the Navy many yrs ago that explained about how alcohol 'works' in your body ...)

We say make driver's learn how to be a good responsible driver and citizen that cares about his/her fellow citizens and cares about doing the right, decent and moral 'thing' or action. To uphold or at least how to aim for the best attitudes and understanding our responsibilities to ourselves, and toward others.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Stephen, Police Officer: good post and some questions:

Is it true that Police try to breathalyse all drivers involved in injury accidents? If so are the readings recorded anywhere?

This would mean that, even though under-limit could have high errors in the readings, this would give us an estimate of the further damage caused by lower levels of DD and therefore the level of impact any change in the law could have.

But we also need to know the level of alcohol of drivers on average who haven't crashed.

ie if 10% of deaths are by DD, but 10% of drivers on average are DD, then DD is not dangerous.


The latest figures show 10% of deaths from RTAs in 2006 were DD with a further 4% "Pedestrian impaired by alcohol" (though some RTAs may be both) but I STRONGLY suspect the number of DD on the roads on average is less than, say, 0.01% (I'm guessing less than 1 in 10,000 drivers on average is below the current DD limit) especially since many Fri + Sat night DDs are not DD any other time.

In other words, if my 0.01% is accurate, DD is EXTRAORDINARILY dangerous.

For comparison, exceeding speed limit is involved in 14% of deaths yet the government claims over 50% of drivers exceed the speed limit on average in their test areas, some SCPs claim 75% of drivers are speeding and my experience is that 99% of drivers exceed the speed limit on a daily basis. In other words exceeding the speed limit is almost always safe, that's probably why cameras have done nothing to improve safety.

I suppose that's a very long way of asking, is there any REAL evidence (not faked-up evidence like that used to justify speed cameras) that lowering the DD limit will make any measurable difference?

And are the police effective in preventing the current DD limit being exceeded? If not how will lowering it help?

It's impossible to have a valid opinion on anything anymore because we just can't accept anything this government says. There's so much spin, lies, corruption and incompetence that no research presented by them has any value whatsoever!

On another note

I wonder what the "Age distribution" actually is for "Alcohol related accidents"??

I suspect that such accidents are rare amongst the over 40's (who have been both drinking AND driving for a long time)

Perhaps us oldies should be allowed a higher limit!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

There's an excellent (albeit rather sweary) deconstruction of the rationale for lowering the drink-drive limit here:

http://devilskitchen.me.uk/2008/08/day- ... -news.html

Includes the following comments from a coroner:

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Wildy did post up some interesting stats on here somewhere back in January -ish.. over the fact that lowering the drink drive level and introducing a zero tolerance for new drivers had not yielded the expected results in Switzerland and Germany and France.

Whilst we advocate sticking to tea/coffee/decent soft drinks and "presses" when driving.. we are aware that blanket lowering and legislation is not the solution.

Educating as to the dangers of drinking to excess and trying to make it plain that booze should never be mixed with a fizzy drink and should always be taken with some food.. might help folk to treat beers and fine wines and spirits with more respect for the food as well as themselves

By the way.. we do have wine with Sunday roasts

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