Safe Speed Forums

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/article4909662.ece



Let me get this right. The financial world is in meltdown, many local authorities face losing millions of pounds invested with Icelandic banks, and they come up with this. Is the world going mad?

Ah well. They have reduced the speed limit on the mostly dead straight A515 Buxton-Ashbourne road to 50. Most people are ignoring this ridiculous reduction in the speed limit, so they are erecting flashing "50 - slow down" signs. Clearly this won't work either, so I guess that they have to find some way of making people drive slowly, as we all know that "speed kills".

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Brian

Think this has appeared at least once on other places on SS. Concensus of opinion - prelude to a nice easy to introduce charging and also a nice easy way to do what this Gov't really wants to do - monitor us a lot more .So forget the speed (that's a secondary way of raising funds ), look at how easy it would be to track vehicles ( for track read charge by mile ) , and as an added bonus - extra survellance too .Enough to make both darling and brown very happy.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Some of the Manchester councils have funds tied up in Icelandic banks. With firms going bust all over the globe .. as well as the banks.. I doubt any one will be able to "spare a dime"


Back to this story .. they probably think that just because 3p has been "slashed" from a litre of petrol .. we will start to drive faster

Heck.. I have noticed less cars and those that are on the road driving more "slowly". because costs are now biting.

So clearly the answer is to fine all for 1 mph above a speed limit via highway man menaces

By the way ,... know what you mean re A515. Long.. straight. solid .. no humps.

Nice .. safe, with pretty scenery for the passengers.. We do use it as an alternative route and join the motorways south further on. (When we head off see our second son at Bristol Uni.. or head down visit pals in the south or even on way to Dover or Portsmouth for the ferries - we do do the "scenic drive" as we think this extends our "jollidays". We sometimes stop off at English Heritage/National Trust places as well for their cream teas! ) But yep .. a cracklingly fine and SAFE SOLID road at the old NSL. We have never been held up because of "incident" nor even heard it mentioned on traffic news in the past.

Knowing this road.. I agree "nice little earner".


Knowing another road in a high profile police case .. I would argue "only a fool would exceed 80 mph along it."

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If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

What the...? Have these speed camera people ever heard of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"? More than half of drivers exceed the M-way speed limit yet they are the safest roads. Doesn't this even hint the slightest of things to the government?

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Currently undergoing training with the I.A.M.

Backing up the story, the Times has an editorial Speed Really Does Kill, in which they rebut the following feedback they received:





I'm not sure about the "falling asleep" one. I do find it very stressful though driving behind somebody who insists on sticking rigorously to the speed limit, can't quite manage it, and therefore brakes at random intervals when they notice that their speed has drifted up by 5 mph, so I go along with the second one. As for "inability to reason", I recall that somebody got 3 points from a red light camera, when he moved forward across the stop line to let an emergency vehicle through. Law enforcement by automatons encourages people to drive like automatons, with their brains partly switched off.

I have no issue with speed limits, provided that they are set sensibly and consistently. Sadly this is not always the case, Derbyshire in particular (and also Cheshire to some extent) having gone round reducing speed limits in a haphazard and largely inconsistent manner recently (the A515 is only one of many such examples). Just don't get me going about Long Hill...



This Labour government are control freaks. Everything must be controlled and monitored. The sooner they are kicked out the better. So there may just be one good outcome from the current financial traumas.

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Brian

I will let you into a little secret.

It's never been about "safety per se" .. but about cash.

It's the same daft mentality which fines folk for putting rubbish in the wrong bin.. putting bin out for collection too early and putting back in back yard after collection to "curfew on wheely bins" Or just filling it so that the lid peeps up by a centimetre and does not "close flush tight"

They call it "saving the planet". I call it RIP OFF gimmick. We do indeed recycle . We do not waste our cash. Like folk up and down the UK .. we cannot afford to do so,.

Me and my wife tend to drive courteously and COAST - safety led-minded - but we understand how one can blip over lolly and how subjective perception of the NIMBY type can subject an opinion. We thus do not do "gimmick" and demand longer term solution - but one which is fair and just to ALL. Likewise our thrift which has always been War on Waste/Waste Not .. Want NEVER!

But under this scheme .. almost 95% will be NIPPED at a time where mobility actually matters if we are to keep some of our economy on the move.

Cycling depends on fitness and distances. Too many work long distances from home and some just cannot ride for many diverse personal reasons.

Apart from the fact that 32 million bicycles will create their own vipers'nest of problems. and legislation and COSTS and FINES!

BETTER THE DEVIL WE KNOW THEN!

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Simple answer is to always wear a tony blair mask/any other disguise while driving and keep your number plates covered in muck. Even folding down the sun visor might be enough to cause problems. The criminally minded will happily clone plates and ignore all restrictions as usual.

If everyone got the same number plate and wore the same disguise on the same day to make a point then there would have to be some serious discussion on whether one was allowed to wear what one likes in one's own car. How far are they going to take this invasion? Are the nosey parkers going to ban net curtains in case you might commit a crime within your own home but couldn't be observed? I wouldn't put it past them. I am sure it would be most entertaining to follow round all the people that have anything to do with these devices filming them and see how they like having their privacy invaded.

Indeed, Tis why our area has not gone down the "camera route" as such. We do use cameras and other equipment -= but these are solely in the hands of properly trained police officers.


The red light one with an ambulance is a tricky one - but like us - our fellow emergency colleagues have been trained to a high standard and are supposed to devise a "driving plan" in these situations.


Oh ... we are only allowed to disobey a red light when on emergency if it is safe for us to do so. Questions are asked if we do not use warning lights or sirens when it goes "pear shaped" - and again, we are also in a dilemma of "never getting it right" on that one - as we actually want to cop the burglar red handed and not warn him we are hot on his collar.


In fact this safety consideration applies to the rest of our driving when on a "shout" or other police business.




I thought the LAs were supposed to be doing a full audit of all these roads.


I hear from the Manchester based crowd that the East Lancs 60 mph stretch is in the final consultation stage whereby locals are invited to raise objections or supports of the proposed 50 mph from the "M60 J14 to Leigh Greyhound roundabout." This situation has come about because of a spate of accidents involving mostly children crossing this fast road. These incidents apparently occurred at traffic lights (Floral tributes mark these spots) and perhaps more the result of drivers trying to beat amber lights in the first place


However, in this instance - the LA in question has audited the road and now put the proposal up for public comment first. I gather that other engineering has been proposed which would make 50 mph a fairly logical speed in the newly engineeed road condition .. in the shape of extra pelican crossings at the point where these communities on each side of the "East Lancs" are likely to cross.








Given all the authorities invested their cash overseas .. in Iceland.

I fear this current slump will cast Mexican tsunami force waves for years to come as we all try to recover from serious global bankruptcy..

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Indeed, Tis why our area has not gone down the "camera route" as such. We do use cameras and other equipment -= but these are solely in the hands of properly trained police officers.


The red light one with an ambulance is a tricky one - but like us - our fellow emergency colleagues have been trained to a high standard and are supposed to devise a "driving plan" in these situations.


Oh ... we are only allowed to disobey a red light when on emergency if it is safe for us to do so. Questions are asked if we do not use warning lights or sirens when it goes "pear shaped" - and again, we are also in a dilemma of "never getting it right" on that one - as we actually want to cop the burglar red handed and not warn him we are hot on his collar.


In fact this safety consideration applies to the rest of our driving when on a "shout" or other police business.




I thought the LAs were supposed to be doing a full audit of all these roads.


I hear from the Manchester based crowd that the East Lancs 60 mph stretch is in the final consultation stage whereby locals are invited to raise objections or supports of the proposed 50 mph from the "M60 J14 to Leigh Greyhound roundabout." This situation has come about because of a spate of accidents involving mostly children crossing this fast road. These incidents apparently occurred at traffic lights (Floral tributes mark these spots) and perhaps more the result of drivers trying to beat amber lights in the first place


However, in this instance - the LA in question has audited the road and now put the proposal up for public comment first. I gather that other engineering has been proposed which would make 50 mph a fairly logical speed in the newly engineeed road condition .. in the shape of extra pelican crossings at the point where these communities on each side of the "East Lancs" are likely to cross.








Given all the authorities invested their cash overseas .. in Iceland.

I fear this current slump will cast Mexican tsunami force waves for years to come as we all try to recover from serious global bankruptcy..

But jus to cheer folk up a bit.


Question: Why is a pigeon now superior in the pecking order to a merchant banker?


Answer: A pigeon can still place a deposit on a Ferrari

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I have to say when I read in the article that "They are likely to be deployed first on long rural A roads, where crashes occur frequently but in many different places, making it impractical to deploy conventional speed cameras, which each cover less than 100 yards of road." the A515 immediately sprang to mind

I suppose the only consolation is that as, in practice, average speed cameras don't catch many people out as so raise little revenue, the costs of installation will be something of a deterrent against their use.


Is the Greyhound the roundabout at Lately Common? If so, that's absolutely ridiculous. Between there and Astley there's a two-mile straight with absolutely zero houses alongside it on either side.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I find the most stressful roads to drive on are ones with SPECS. I'm pretty sure everyone thinks this.

I am least stressed when I can decide the safe speed based on the road conditions.

Why introduce something which increases stress? Perhaps I could sue a local authority for stress related illness.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

One factor that will help improve the casualty figures for roads on which these things are installed is that they are likely to lead to large-scale diversion on to other roads, for anyone who has a choice. So then they will be hailed as a great success

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Hi Peter


Just phoned the Mad Doc's sister - the one called Ju-Ju. She works in Altrincham and usually makes a decision based on traffic as to whether M60/A6144 or A580/Cuclcheth/Warburton Toll Bridge..when going to work in a morning.


She says the planned reduction is along the entire length to this Culcheth/Leigh roundabout where some hotel called "The Greyhound" is situated - which is why they call it the "Greyhound roundabout" Have no idea if that's its local name or it's just Julie's "landmark mapper".

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I don't know about that, as I'm not familiar with that particular road, but one point does interest me.

When you're approaching a point that combines a hump and a slight curve to the left, would one not seek to adjust the line on the approach so that when the car lands after the hump, it will be travelling on a suitable course that enables it to stay on its own side of the road? That hump can make a critical difference if it is not catered for specifically. Just a thought.

Tragic incident though, and I do feel for all the people involved.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Posted my thoughts on this incident on the thread(s) (in SPL/News) relating to it.


You would still be pushing your luck on that one at 80 mph to be honest. The Mad Doc and his really wild wife are, in reality, rather competent drivers and they are quite right to say that if you push the envelope and choose to drive above 60 mph lolly limit on that road (which would be unwise since the cam vans do operate along it - then 80 mph would be the highest speed at which you could be sure of being "safe-ish" on the dips - and even then only if you know what you are doing - which rather precludes the majority


Driven along it myself Bicycled along part of it. Ridden a motorbike along it. When the trainer trained on it himself as a trainee - he would not necessarily have been driving at the speeds given in the court room.

We have trained on similar - but as said - our training team agree on a set speed with base to make sure all cleared beforehand. We learned a lesson when we lost a valuable inspector over what he thought would have been a good "test area for candidates" but failed to clear it with either selves or the "host area"

My thoughts and condolences are with the real victims of this incident who are, after all , the victims of those who should have known better by virtue of their training - one which I have completed and one on which I have led the training courses on over the course of my career to date.

BACK to TOPIC!

But should they rid this road of the" generally hated cam vans" as you approach the villages along it - and introduce even more hated SPECS along its length?


No. I think that the road has sufficient road markings and hazard signs (even if the driver allegedly "did not recall seeing them" )

Perhaps they need to be larger?

It may benefit from a VAS at key areas such as on the approaches to the villages and the camp sites though.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Usually when you are relaxed and "reading the road"/negotiating and applying due consideration to the other folk on the road with you - you are usually compliant enough to the speed limit - give or take the odd plus/minus fluctuations.

Our problem with automatons is that, whereas we police would not necessarily be overly bothered over a small blip over the posted limit here and there, the SPECS may be programmed to "black and white "absolute robot" as opposed to the normal "human professional judgement of the situation as it really was"

Now some will suggest "use the cruise control button" - but folk either think this turns the car into a "robot in control of itself" .. or they forget that hitting the brake pedal switches off the device .. and some just do not like the "feel of not being in total control" of the vehicle.


OK .. next idea? The one mostly favoured by BRAKE and RoadPeace ..

the speed limiter which can only realistically limit cars to 70 mph for the UK and thus would not be a good idea for the UK car driver on the continent who will be on 81 mph and higher set limits in some certain areas.

But again - with the cruise control and the speed limiter - we can risk more incidents as folk do have a nasty tendency of being lulled into a state of quite complacent "security".

I'd rather a driver reading the road properly at 55 mph in a 50 mph road than one missing something vital at 47 mph in a 50 mph zone like the A515 (which really was just as "safe" at 60 mph in reality. Busy - but flowing safely enough each time I've driven along it in the past. )

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I did say that I'm not familiar with that road, so I can't offer an opinion as to what might be a safe maximum speed for different driver abilities at different points along the road.

What I was really talking about was a way to minimise the risk of coming unstuck and going badly off course in a situation where a bend is combined with a brow or summit. In effect you've got to take the bend before you get there, in a manner of speaking. At least that's my approach - and it seems to work.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

But does the bend come after the summit or before it. That particular incident caused when he literally took off on the hump - bouncing into the oncoming car.

Like you say.. you do not know the road. We do. Full of cyclists.. horseriders. You would be illegal und still pushing your luck to keep you und others alive at 80 mph. I do happen to understand the difference between "careless" und "dangerous" behaviour.

Yes.. we enjoy driving .. we enjoy a spirited at a fairly invigorating mph


But we support common sense.. safety led driving.. speed awareness/DIS courses

We do not support OTT or plainly unsafe speeding in a car or on a motorbike as a substitute for an orgasm nor should we support such plain stupid behaviour.

We do not support using Handy in hand when ing along.

We do not support driving whilst tired or impaired by drink or any drugs.

We do not support driving whilst uninsured .. without licence .. in a defective vehicle.

We most certainly do not support speed cameras as they do not at all cop these inconsiderate thugs ... the ones really responsible for about 66% of all KSI und not the chap pinged at few blips above the lolly sign.

Which steer back to topic after making a few ''"three" point """ turns und perhaps ending up in the same direction (Our neighbour failed her L test over that! Nerves.. )

The proposed speed cams will only cop those who are legal owners of their vehicles. Almost all of these will have fluctuated up/down over the distance.. but these cameras will not be measuring between cam 1 to cam 2. It will be the whole set of them recording the average speed from start to finish - which mean that your 27 mph between one pair count for nothing if it blip to 34 mph between cam 2 to 3.. dip back to 30 mph between cams 3 to 4 und then up to 36 mph between cams 4 to 5 when the driver see higher lolly sign ahead und presses just slightly on seeing this in "anticipation"

It will not be improving driving standards in all reality.

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
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Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Don't worry.
Since the new "speed camera" system will be also recording the numbers, calculating the speed between whatever points are chosen, checking what roads the vehicle can have driven down because it took so long to get between two points, and then dumping the data back to another system (the specs system operates in an "area", each area has a control point to which the separate cameras connect (a nice bomproof double walled brick bunker with a 6 inch-thick concrete roof))
After all this, the chance of it working 24/7 (or even 12/7) are pretty remote.
Don't forget, while the polos and police are crowing about how it will stop accidents and reduce speeding, the whole point of the system has got little to do with either of those.
The major point of it is to record what, where and when.
According to the police, the anpr system is the best weapon they have against crime.
According to a serving police inspector: "we'll be able to tell where you fart in a few years"

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing