Safe Speed Forums

I think the journalist who does "Trevor McDonald" is as guilty as any other when it comes to pseudoscience.

In ancient times we had the alchemists trying to turn metals into gold.
Today we have partnerships turning facts into fiction.

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

So let's get this straight. Do they count collisions or casualties?

Let's say in one 12-month period there is only one collision, but both cars were full of people and 8 were injured, then in the next 12 months there are three collisions, but the vehicles were all single occupant in each case, the "figures" will show the road is getting safer?

_________________
“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken

So let's get this straight. Do they count collisions or casualties?

Let's say in one 12-month period there is only one collision, but both cars were full of people and 8 were injured, then in the next 12 months there are three collisions, but the vehicles were all single occupant in each case, the "figures" will show the road is getting safer?[/quote]

The SCP's can (and will) calculate the stats for both, and will report whichever one is better, this is evident all the time, just read the various press releases and you will notice this. For official reporting the figures used are KSIs (numbers of casulaties killed or seriously injured) and PICs (personal injury collisions, ie. any collision involving an injury).

Gareth

And guess what, during the last 12 months, there have been large amounts of roadworks on the policed stretch of the M4, namely the good old Driver information system trunking.
Mainly 50 mph limits, and of course, that will reduce the figures

_________________
"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

So, last year the scamera partnership were very keen to release the news of the first year "casualty reduction" on the 13th April.

This year they've been strangely silent.

Do we have the stats for the 2006/7 accidents on this stretch?

So, the Wiltshire scammers have now released 3-year before and after stats, which they are crowing about somewhat:



Do these represent real reductions? The Fatals is obviously not stastically significant, but the Slights probably is. Do we have the previous accident statistics going back 10 years to see whether the 2002-2005 period was a particularly high blip, or whether it reflects the long-term average?

I can only think back. I seem to think the radio always mention jam due to accident from as far back as 1990. I know R" breakfast show host
was always moaning about crashes caused by "eejits"

I have one relative who studied in that area. A cousin MINE. I seem to recall him saying that he was always getting held up in accident/roadwork jam. That was in 1991.

So I suspect problems for reasons beyond "speed"


Oh yes. I can only think a mix of roadworks..traffic density.... worn out road.. defective car..human error // may well have been cause.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Always be suspicious of stats broken down into seemingly arbitrary blocks, its likely theres a year in there skewing it in their favour. Demand year-by-year.

_________________
Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Any repeat of an incident like either of the ones above would do the trick, and spoil the figures.

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Reference the above: How to lie with statistics:
This is how you do it Professionally!
http://patmosisland.net/Awash_with_Money.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7280426.stm

what like this... M4 coach crash leaves 25 injured
26 march 2008
The crash was between Junction 14 and Membury Services
About 25 people were injured in a coach crash on the M4 on the border between Wiltshire and Berkshire.
were these counted in berkshire? or just after the cut off date March 1 2008.

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

There seems to be a problem here: if accidents related to speed were to be tackled by bridge dwelling scumera vans, does that mean all the accidents have to happen within a few hundred yards of said bridges in order that the 'slowing down' of cars near the 'risk zone' is beneficial??



In fact what happens is that traffic bunches up as the silly 70mph effect ruins the (already poor) vehicle spacing at each flyover, then traffic resumes sensible running until the next flyover. Its a real joke! And if you don't know the scumeras operate, you will be nicked in total secrecy (presumably when the road is empty enough that those in the 'know' can't slow you down during flyover bunching periods) thus continuing in high risk, high speed configuration for 14 more days or so.....oh well. If your lucky enough to survive the deadly effects of crusing at 85mph for that long you ca have the pleasure of paying some extra tax.

I hate to say this but even this shambles is prefereable to the average speed cam threat from SPECS3, perhaps we should bolster the 'safety camera partnerships' to stave off the inevitable???

Either way I feel like screaming!!

_________________
Enjoying the twilight years of personal freedom in the UK (and my M3) :)

This is a very good point, and probably why so far motorway camera vans have only been used on quiet stretches of motorway (M4 Wiltshire, M6 Cumbria) -- on the busier motorways in the South East, the whole traffic stream would slow down for the camera van and they wouldn't be able to fine anyone -- it's only when the traffic is nicely free flowing that people are likely to be caught off-guard.

Of course, that's also the time when accidents are least likely to happen...