Safe Speed Forums

Do any of the current crop of Sat Navs show what the speed limit is at the vehicles location?

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I know the Destinator based ones will tell you if you are exceeding the speed limit, and I think they also take the limit into account when calculating a route.

However I would ask you, do you really want to rely on something like this. Even if you purchase the latest maps that were released yesterday, they're still going to be up to a year out of date (full explanation of why here), with councils changing (ie. lowering) speed limits constantly and the penalties for exceeding them, do you really want to be relying on an out of date map?

Just get a Road Angel, or a Pogo (formerly Origin B2) and deal with only having the speed limit information (and overlimit warnings) presented to you when there is a fixed camera or talivan site approaching, they can keep that information much more up to date (updated daily), it's basically impossible to accurately map out speed limit information for all UK roads with current technology.

The rest of the time you're going to have to look for the road signs telling you what the limit is.

Times had a review of a really wicked one last week. Legal in France apparently

It's called A Coyote. Do a google and you get all the information on it. Cunning device Apparently it does not just tell you where the speed traps are .. it tells everyone else who use the same system and allegedly works best when it detects a "horse box"


It also works as a Sat Nav per the article Have no idea how much it costs though.


I use a Road Angel in one car and what came with the car in the main family car. However, I never really need the device as my COAST helps me keep it legal - see the signs anyway

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the tom-tom devices will show you what the speed limit is at the displayed location, if your speed is higher than the stored limit it is displayed in red.
It can also be set to sound a warning.
The coyote system is basically a satnav that is updated in [sorta] realtime, whether you have to pay for the service I don't know....but if you get something for nothing it's usually worth what you paid...it can only tell you about a speedtrap if someone has input that location.....so if the thing has not been notified the system won't know about it...it doesn't detect the speed trap.....it has to be "told" where it is to display the location.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Lum.

I certainly wouldn't rely on such a device but it would be useful additional information. I have been caught for exceeding the posted speed limit (I refuse to call it 'speeding') in the last three years. On all the occasions I was attempting to obey the limit. Twice I missed the sign because I was distracted by such trivia as children walking in the road. The third time, on a road I drive a lot, the limit was changed without any publicity. That caught a lot of people but they did give me the option of a "speed awareness course" (which might be the subject of another topic).

I do have a Road Angel which I update regularly but I have my doubts about how comprehensive it is. It still alerts me on the edge of Macclesfield even though the camera was removed two years ago.

If 'speeding' is so dangerous the money that is raised by the cameras really should be used to introduce technology to inform the driver of the limit. A passive transponder on each sign would only cost a few pounds. Even more simple, though it would take a long time to roll out, would be to vary the appearance of the centre line according to the speed limit.

Now why won't that happen

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

The only reason you cannot rely on them (satnav) is that the council/s change speed limits so often, and many people do not update the satnav as often (if at all) as they should do.
Then there is "speed limit creep", where the limits are moved a hundred yards up/down the road....
Sorry, I fail to see the need for even more "furniture" along, or on, the road. I am quite used to not being able to see the forest for the trees, and not being able to see it because the forest floor has been painted yellow.......
Less signage = simpler driving
Simpler driving = safer driving
There is a road in [my] town where the speed vans make a good living. It is a 30 limit. People do not know this, because it is not "signposted". It is signed, but some way back along the road. However, it *does* have street lighting.
Surprisingly, a LOT of people do not know that a road with street lighting (lamposts less than 200 yards apart (185 metres)) is automatically 30mph, unless signed different. And, judging by the traffic behind me it is a HELL of a lot. There is no requirement to [repeat] sign 30 limits in the presence of street lighting, it may also be illegal to do so.

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

I doubt if many motorists routinely carry equipment for measuring the distance between lamposts



So: no centre lines: no stop/yield lines: no lane markings on motorways: no warning of schools: no warning of sharp bends; no chevrons on bends: no direction signs. That makes for safer diving

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

How to go from "less signage" to your idiotic statement above? If you want to have a sensible discussion then please do so, but don't imply rubbish that nobody has suggested.

It's called "information overload"
There is so much to take-in that the brain AUTOMATICALLY sheds some of the load and ignores things.
The more signs you put up, the less attention people take of them.
Signage at roundabouts has reached proportions approaching the ridiculous, many have so many signs that they obstruct the view of the traffic approaching each entrance/exit.
You now have speed limits marked on the road, many in red, which wear rapidly and become unreadable. Leading to loads of confusion.
I promise to not mention (ok, I'll break it) the parking signs that inform you that parking is on alternate days.....on a little sign lower down the pole...
We won't even go into having new road marking....which have to be regulated and advertised....and then a reprint of the highway code.
There are more than enough speed limit markings, if in doubt slow down.
Kids around should automatically lead to a driver proceeding at a slower speed, never mind the speed limit.
If there are no signs about....no repeaters...and street lighting....then it is highly likely to be a 30 limit (which is a MAXIMUM speed....the LEGAL speed you SHOULD be driving at is a SPEED APPROPRIATE TO THE CONDITIONS....)

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

But "Less signage => Safer driving " implies "No signage => Safest Driving". Which as semitone says is nonsense. So the original proposition must be at fault and should be rephrased as "Signage beyond a certain minimum leads to less safe driving" And the discussion becomes one about what that certain minimum is, which is a very subjective judgement.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Subjective is a very subjective subject.
What do we do ?
Have signs that the majority can cope with, or signage that only those with the capability to cope with multiple high-inputs can cope with ?
Incidentally, the people that can cope with multiple inputs are more likely to be ........women.
The average woman will be many times more likely to cope with having a multiplicity of mental inputs than a male.
So, obviously (since we are being subjective) we can have loads more markings, and then only allow women to drive ?
Or less markings.
Which, surprisingly, is better. DORSET
Even the AA research suggests that. AA
Or maybe no road signs is better ?
Apparently YES
In the UK ?
Guardian

Oh, and the COYOTE system seems to use the GSM system to constantly update the data....both ways...so it is likely to be a charged system...

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

My scientific training has taught me that the more information the better. It is easier to filter out unwanted data than to synthesise missing data. But if that isn't the norm then the principle of the greatest good must always prevail.

The Dorset and Bohmte schemes don't really support your argument. The former is being done for amenity reasons with the acceptance that it would be curtailed if it impinged on safety. And in Bohmte they are effectively pedestrianising the town centre without actually banning through traffic. Not vastly different to the many pedestrianised areas in the UK which allow delivery vehicles.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Why should I have to support my argument ?
Where is your [any] evidence that more signage equals better safety ?
Carrying it to the ridiculous end, we could say that having so many signs that traffic cannot move at all is the ideal.
No signs = better safety
or:
loads of signs = better safety.
There is bound to be an area , probably in the middle (but more likely in the lower-end of amount of signs) where safety is optimum.
What we can say is that in the "experiments" so far, less signs leads to lower accidents.
Why ?
Probably because drivers drive more slowly and with greater care.
Voluntarily.
So, we now have to set an "experiment" where an area is saturated with road signs, and see what happens.
I'm sure that "experiment" is already running, albeit involuntarily.
We now have to find a traffic area with so many signs that the daylight has a hard time getting through......................................................

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

I didn't ask you to support your argument. I said that the facts that you showed me didn't support the argument.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

More information is not always better, especially if you don't have time to analyse it. There are roads around here where there are so many signs that it is not possible to read them all in one pass and still look at the road; That is ridiculous.

Presumably you will also be familiar with signals being lost in the noise. There are sharp bend signs warning of bends that you would have to be blind to miss. There are signs saying "No footway for 3/4 mile" (Why call it a footway?) on a country road that has no "footway" for a mile before or 5 miles after - why - it's obvious that there is no "footway"? The trouble is that you become so used to seeing signs that you can easily ignore those that really matter.

Where the A140 joins the A14 the approach to the roundabout has good visiblity and the only sign that really matters is the direction sign. There are so many signs obscuring the direction sign that it is never possible to see the whole sign at once as you drive towards it!

Unfortunately, the average driver, and probably the above-average driver, has to look at the signs and then decide which to filter out. On a familiar route the unwanted signs get filtered out after a while, leaving the wanted and new signs to consider.
On an unfamiliar route all the signs get looked at. The time spent looking at signs and road markings is time NOT spent on looking for children/cats/dogs and cyclists.
Science has all the time it needs to filter data, a driver has to do it in realtime....

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Which brings the argument (which need not be supported) full circle. Vulnerable road users would take so much of my attention that I would not attempt to read the road signs. Thereby not being aware that the speed limit has changed. That is why I would like a more effective way of showing the speed limit.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I don't really care what the speed limit is. I only want to know that I'm under it. My car should tell me (by beeping or something) when I'm liable to get done.

That's exactly what Road Angel, Origin, Pogo et. al. do. You should get one

They only display/warn of the correct speed (relative to limit) if they have correct information.
TomTom (et al) do that as well, but if the limit has changed and the data has not been updated, then the warnings are useless.
I find it worrying that people think that a 16inch diameter sign with big numbers on is hard to see.
No big signs ?
Lamp posts ?
No small signs ?
Then 30.
No big signs ?
No lamp posts ?
Look for the small signs.
Too much information leads to accidents.
My satnav display turns off over 40mph, leaving me the audio directions.
Less hassle.
It has been said, with a very large degree of truth, that accidents would be dramatically reduced by making ICE illegal.

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing