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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:30 
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Pah! Distributorless Volvo?!!! Go wash your mouth out with soap sir!!! In fact, I consider that comment bordering on the "ad hominem" and have a good mind to report you to the moderators! :wink:

Volvo, indeed! No, in fact my 19 year old quarter million mile monster is that paragon of build quality and reliability...

..an Alfa Romeo!!!

(Surprised? I certainly am)! This was a £300 car 5 years ago and has been utterly amazing in terms of reliability! It's one of those cars that has earned it's place in the garage 'til it rots now. (which is probably what will kill it off, ultimately)!

As for the balance between maintainability and features/performance peaking some years ago, well, even in my experience people having been saying that for 20 years or more now. Ever since the demise of the carburettor! If I was older, I might even still know a few people who didn't trust hydraulic brakes! My dad is a mechanic and he says he's glad that he's going to be retired soon. The cars are getting too complex for him to fix. However, I think it's largely just a different mindset that is required. As well as the trusty socket set and big hammer, today's DIY mechanic needs to cash out on some computer equipment and learn a different set of skills (or maybe an additional set of skills). If anything, it's getting easier with greater standardisation of engine managment fault codes on the most recent vehicles.

I accept that there are plenty of disadvantages too, though. That said, by and large (and I choose my words carefully here!) "design faults" are getting fewer and cars are getting more reliable. When I first started maintaining cars, it was (I think) easier to get a spare from the scrapyard because quality control was worse. Chances are, if you found one in a scrapper just like yours, the part that you needed would be OK. These days, I'm starting to find that one disadvantage of highly automated production techniques and better quality control and consistency of manufacture is that "...they all do that, sir" - so if you find one in a scrapper, the bit you were after is much more likely to be knackered too.

That, of course, is a two-edged sword. The advantage is that (especially with model-specific internet fora), exchange of information is much easier. I can hop onto the forum and ask about a problem and there's a pretty good chance someone else will have had the same thing.

By the time my wife's car is 20 years old, I imagine that if the £1000 filler cap ECU is a common issue, someone will have copied it and be making them in China for about £20. I'll probably even be able to order one online! If it's not a common issue, there will be plenty of intact ones in the scrapper!

As for bumpers, I must admit that I've never really found it a problem. I'd never buy a car I didn't like the look of so that's more important to me than being able to knock the corners off it and replace them easily. (I did once have a Series II Landie though, and it would fulfil those requirements PERFECTLY! Cheap, easy to replace and nigh-indestructible bumpers; amazingly cheap and plentiful spares that took minutes to fit. Only trouble was, the 15MPG and the ride that would leave you in need of a good osteopath after about 20 miles)!


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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:37 
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From the executors of dcb's estate.

We regret that dcb will unable to contribute further to this thread as, unable to bear the humiliation of having mistakenly attributed the ownership of a Volvo to Mole, he has taken his own life. :!:

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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:41 
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Dusty wrote:
Quote:
I don't think anyone is arguing that we should go back to model T Fords in our quest for simplicity.


Agreed, but it would be interesting to see what a modern interpretation of Fords original desighn philosophy would be like!

Quote:
I will build a car for the great multitude. It will be large enough for the family, but small enough for the individual to run and care for. It will be constructed of the best materials, by the best men to be hired, after the simplest designs that modern engineering can devise. But it will be low in price that no man making a good salary will be unable to own one


I doubt if it would be anything like the multitude of vehicles currently sitting unsold on dealer forecourts!


Tata are promising just that! The trouble is, if Henry Ford made that same quote today, I imagine it would be something more like:

Quote:
I will build a car for the great multitude. It will be large enough for the family, but small enough for the individual to run and care for. It will be constructed of the best materials, by the best men to be hired, after the simplest designs that modern engineering can devise. It will meet all current applicable environmental and safety requirements - even though that means it will be much more complex. It will even have 5 EuroNCAP stars so the man in the street will be able to think he can crash it and still be safe. It will have ABS and ESC as standard because that's what all my competitors have. But it will be low in price that no man making a good salary will be unable to own one (although I'll probably have to whack a healthy surcharge on to cover my ass against litigious muppets who can't drive for sh1t but say it was the car's fault anyway ,and I'll need to add a bit more on to cover my obligations for free take-back under the End-of-Life Vehicles Directive)".


I really think that the buying public are their own worst enemy sometimes!

Still, I like old Henry! He also reputedly said:

"I tip my hat to the man who drives an Alfa Romeo"! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:43 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
From the executors of dcb's estate.

We regret that dcb will unable to contribute further to this thread as, unable to bear the humiliation of having mistakenly attributed the ownership of a Volvo to Mole, he has taken his own life. :!:


:drink: :drink: :drink: :drink:

I am heartened to see that DCB's sense of humour lives on though!


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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 19:34 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
I could advance a good argument that there should be no light switches at all on cars; all the lights being controlled by an LCC (lighting control computer) with the aid of a few photodiode sensors. ( I suppose that you would have to have a manual parking light switch but that would only operate with the ignition off) :trafficlight:


my merc has auto lights; after a few weeks they got switched off and have been used the old fashioned way ever since. Dunno if it's litigation-culture or poor implementation or what, but they would come on if the sun so much as went behind a cloud.

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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 20:49 
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my jag has auto lights, wipers, handbrake.........etc etc

its suprising how quick i got used to it....and how often i drive my wife's car with the lights of and the handbrake on!!


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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:50 
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Safety cameras save lives.


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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:15 
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mpaton2008 wrote:
Safety cameras save lives.


But not as many as antibiotics

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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:54 
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mpaton2008 wrote:
Safety cameras save lives.


Maybe they will do once they are invented. At the moment we only have speed cameras.


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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 14:06 
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Quote:
mpaton2008Safety cameras save lives.



So do surgical operations but who wants to go through one of those several times a day?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 17:22 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
brossen99 wrote:
Corporate Nazi's .

Reported to moderators.


What's offensive? Corporate or Nazi's?

If its Nazi's, then the Nazi's are the political opponents to communists, just like Tory and Labour. I know a few had a few ideas that would seem sociably unacceptable today, but remember the UK banned Jews from working in the Civil Service and being on a jury while Hitler was still in short trousers! We also had the Alien (Coloured) Seamen Act (1920's?) barring black sailor from leaving their vessels when in a UK port.

I think your being a little precious dc. Those jack booted grouts did have some good ideas like Autobhans. Also we owe the survival of great marques like Audi to Mr Hitler as well his collaberation with Mr Porsche to create VW. Being a Nazi wasn't all bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 18:06 
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I thought he was objecting to the spurious apostrophe.


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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 19:18 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
I thought he was objecting to the spurious apostrophe.


That is correct. An error also perpetrated by Lucy. No books on grammar in the library next to Hansard?

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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 22:26 
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And the Pope was in the Hitler Youth - u gona av a go at 'im, yh?


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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 22:29 
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Lucy W wrote:
And the Pope was in the Hitler Youth - u gona av a go at 'im, yh?


Don't expect me to admire the Pope whether he was in the Hitler Youth or the Boy Scouts. He is one of the most dangerous men in the world.

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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 22:40 
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I'm glad you say "one" of the most dangerous men in the world. If we start with George Bush as number one, what ranking do you give the Pope?


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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:39 
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Lucy W wrote:
I'm glad you say "one" of the most dangerous men in the world. If we start with George Bush as number one, what ranking do you give the Pope?



Reminds me of the "Private eye" type qustion.

"What is the diference between George Bush and Osama binLadin?"

(One is a relegious fanatic determined to use military force and weapons of mass destruction to impose his own particular vision of the future on the world, the other is the aledged leader of a disparate organisation known as AlQuaeda!)

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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 13:26 
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Dusty!! lol


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 Post subject: Re: Fog
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 02:30 
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Chaps this thread has gone somewhat OFF TOPIC, whilst we do not mind some wanders this is too far. TY.

edited for precision.

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