Safe Speed Forums

You are moving faster when you hit the ground and generally there are not any cars on the footpath to run you over afterwards? You could fall over in or into the road when walking so I would go for the more critical nature of control and balance needed for cycling. While one is most likely to hurt oneself a little thought for the effects of killing someone on the the driver would not go amiss. A driver may not actually hit a drunk cyclist, swerving suddenly across the road and to have a head on with another car coming the other way for instance.

I have done it, but one has to consider the effects of ones decisions on others.

A couple of mates and I once experimented by riding a small motorbike up and down a drive while drinking. There were the kind of effects you would expect, the surprising thing was how quickly fine control started to degrade. Use of the brakes and clutch started to become almost digital well before any of us would have said we were even feeling slightly tipsy, balance was not really a problem at this stage, but we all started to stall the bike and lock the rear wheel when stopping - or just hitting the garage door before stopping! We gave up before damaging the bike so never reached the stage of actually falling off.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

What if you take ones or more wheels off it, let the tyres down or make the vehicle undrivable in some other way?

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

I am not sure if the condition of the vehicle is necessarily a defence. Cases of drink drivers getting all the tyres punctured by a stinger and continuing to drive, sometimes for miles, are fairly common. If the vehicle has broken down and is not repairable at the roadside you would probably have a stronger case than if you had "disabled" it by doing something easily reversible.

In the end, although this particular piece of legislation seems to be a catch all, very few cases actually get to court. Suggesting that the police and CPS are using a bit of common sense about it. I don't recall ever having seen a charge of cycling while drunk.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

I've heard of several cases of this, including someone I know asleep on the back seat (specifically because he didn't want to drink-drive) who got done. As far as the laws concerned, if you find yourself in the position of being intoxicated and with no-where else to sleep you might as well chance driving, you'll probably stick out less to prowling cops than asleep in a car.

As far as being "drunk in charge", could I be done when sitting in my lounge? My fob still unlocks the van parked in the street from my settee...

What is the distance at which you are deemed to be in charge? Can one person unlock the vehicle remotely remaining 30 feet away while a second retrieves the items from a car?

On which note, I've just thought of a great way to wind up the law

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

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I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

Also this case:

Cyclist jailed for knocking over a nurse


I suspect had she received the same injuries from a car driver he would have received a longer sentence than nine months.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I'm fairly sure I saw one on Police Camera Action once!

But charged with being drunk in public not specifically with been drunk whilst cycling

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Again not specifically for being drunk.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

"Police stopped Michael Allan Joseph Thursby, 23, in Egremont on September 19, after they ruled he was incapable of riding the bike.

Thursby, of Dent Place, Cleator Moor, was fined £60 with £60 costs and £15 victims’ surcharge."

Section 30 Road Traffic Act 1988 says: "It is an offence for a person to ride a cycle on a road or other public place when unfit to ride through drink or drugs - that is to say - is under the influence of a drink or a drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the cycle."

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I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

Its a fair cop guv

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Thanks for the links, its nice to see that some areas take bad cycling seriously.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

Some very entertaining thoughts on this matter.

May I make one correction? Your drive is not a public place, however if it was decided that you were going to drive off into a public place, then that would be sufficient intention. I can illustrate this witha true case I dealt with.
Lad rolls car into field, his passenger farms the land and is legless but gets a telescopic handler to right the car and put it back on the road. Plod turn up and passeneger/farmer is breathalised and charged. However the handler had been taken from the farm across the field and never on the road (this was undisputed) but the arm of the handler had reached into the road, whilst behind the hedge. The CPS decided to drop the case as there was no intention to drive on the road and didn't feel that the arm of the handler constituted driving in a public place. There was no other evidence to suggest that the farmer didn't have proper control.

But walking up to your car drunk? did you intend to drive it or not? You are in the lap of the Gods, or magistrates as they like to be called.

Legally, you can sit in a car with the engine running and not comit an offence - however I doubt you will be believed that you had no intention to drive.

Personally I am lucky because I always carry my camping gear and can claim I was going to put the seats down and get in a sleeping bag and just warming the car up - and that would be strictly legal. However I would advise anyone to enter by the passenger door only if you are to be believed.

Indeed a friend tryed just this ploy, claiming he had been throw out by his wife (witness evidence that this was a regukar occurance!) and was warming up his car before unrolling his sleeping bag. The police found him asleep at the wheel outside his house sozzled. Technically he had a good defence, however it turned out that he didn't actually have his sleeping bag with him - he said he going to go back in and get it, hmmmmmm? I don't know the outcome, but I haven't seen him around for a while.

So going back to my 'type of vehicle' question, it's not whether you are sleeping in a camper van or not, but whether you go equipped to camp, as it were?

Just picked up on the disabling the car scenario and feel that that would be excellent evidence that you had NO intention to drive. Something like having the rotar arm in your pocket.

And if I can turn to drunk in charge of a horse, some guy got done driving a cart back from a night on the beer in Gloucestershire not so long ago. He came to the attention of the police because he had no lights on and subsequently they discovered he was incapable due to intoxication. Perhaps not really that funny until I tell you his horse was called Dipstick!!

I believe full details can be found on the net.

I can cap that with the story of my Grandfather. He was in a drunken stupor on his cart with the horse dutiful making its way home when he was stopped and charged with being drunk in charge of the horse and cart. His defence, which was successful , was that the horse was in charge.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Well sorry to be evasive, it's all about this damn thing called "intention". If you are snuggled up in the back of a camper van parked up for the night on the side of the road, worse for drink, at a beauty spot, I can't see a problem (May I recommend Wrynose Pass, Cumbria for such activities). However parked in a layby on a duel carriage way slumped at the wheel of a camper van is a different matter all together - you wont be believe that you had stopped for the night.

I in fact do a lot of wild camping or to be precise camp with car a the side of the road. I am usually intoxicated before my tent goes up last thing but feel confident that I could convince a court that I did not intend driving with evidence of photos of other wild camp pitches and witnesses who would confirm that this was a 'normal' thing for me, even though I may be "caught" sitting in a car, even with the engine on, with no sign of camping other than kit in the boot.

I infact spent 3 weeks "camping" in the turn around in the lay-by at the end of Glen Nevis. There was a camper van, which had no battery as it was with a pal on charge in Fort William, my 4x4 and another car. We quite merrily got worse for drink with no fears of prosectution depsite starting engines for lights etc.

Just another thought about drink driving is it concerns a "motorise vehicle". So you can be convicted on a skateboard with a 10cc motor that does not require a licence - and it will go on your driving licence and almost certainly result in a ban! Scarey, but sadly there have been people cought out by this bizarre scenario.

Interestingly to be drunk in charge of a horse, bicycle or pram requires you to be pretty well gone and wont effect your driving licence. The ancient law that covers this also applied to steam engines but it seems that that are now covered by new legislation as they are motorised vehicles. So all you steam enthusiasts beware! No pub crawling on your traction engines!

Does anybody here, besides me, still drive a car with a rotor arm?

In an earlier post I commented on the idea of disabling your car as "proof" that you had no intention to drive. This does not provide anything like a cast iron defence, unless you have disabled the vehicle in a way which would need garage facilities to repair.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

It is not as cut and dried as you suggest. Courts are obliged to consider much more than just the location when deciding if the defendant was likely to drive while still over the limit.

It is quite possible for a person parked at a beauty spot to decide to move on in the middle of the night especially if, as happened to me, a convoy of travellers arrive at 3am and started taking an unhealthy interest in whether my boot was locked.
Some years ago but we had a drunk in charge case where the driver had stopped in a layby and found him not guilty. He had been on his way home from university for the weekend, realised he was too tired to drive safely and stopped. He then drank enough beer to put himself just over the limit. What saved him from conviction was the fact that he had phoned his parents to say where he was and that he would stay the night and continue his journey in the morning. His parents and sister all came to court to give evidence of the phone call.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.