Safe Speed Forums

I just wondered.

I heard from several sources that if you are flashed by a camera the ticket must come within 14 days or it is void. But I hear on here differently. Could someone clarify this for me as almost everyone I know whos had a ticket recieved it within around 10 days.

I mean does some sort of notification of the offence have to come within that time period, as whenever I overworry about something I use 2-3 weeks as the cut off period for worrying. This is where I got it from

the registered keeper must be notified within 14days of the offence of an intention to prosecute (an NIP) and this is found in
Section 1(1) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988

Secondly if anyone knows, is it legal to press sat nav buttons whilst driving?

Thanks

Rob

Yes and No. The registered keeper must receive the first NIP within 14 days of the aleged offense. Any following NIP's can be outside this window if the first has been returned with a name other than the RK. If in doubt go to PEPIPOO.com for clarification.


I am not sure tbh. I am sure som of the BIB on this site will let you know.

Ah thanks that clears it up for me then, if they must recieve something. I guess the 6 months thing I read somewhere else was a follow up or a summons or something?

Almost right.
The police may send the nip to the PREVIOUS keeper because the "details" have been lost/not found on the CURRENT keeper. In which case they will (upon being notified of their "mistake" by the person who received the nip) send the current keeper the nip. Late, but correct. They tried exactly that with me (as the previous keeper).

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Pressing satnav buttons whilst driving isn't going to fall under the law pertaining to mobile phone use whilst driving, particularly if the device is in a cradle or on a mount, but if doing so detracts from your driving significantly then you can, as always, be open to a charge of driving without due care and attention.

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Not quite.

If the DVLA records are not up to date, i.e. If you have recently moved house or the car has recently changed hands then the 14 day rule does not apply.

Also,

The rule is that the NIP has to be sent to arrive within 14 days. If it gets lost in the post then it is still valid.

And.

If you are not the registered keeper the 14 day rule does not apply.

So imagine how bad it's going to get when they finish taking the Royal Mail apart, they've already started closing sorting offices.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

so basically the 14 day rule applies to any case where there is no mail loss or when the NIP does not go to an address miles away because of an address change or owner change or something and get sent back etc. In other words disregarding mail loss, SOMEONE has to recieve something within 14 days.

Is that right?

I believe (and again, pepipoo will provide a more trustworthy answer) that they have 14 days to send the registered keeper an NIP. They then have six months to actually prosecute you thereafter.

PEPIPOO links below
NIP 14 Days
Staffs Police Letter about 14 days
Both state the accuracy of info from the DVLA is important. However the initial NIP must be sent to arrive within 14 days of the alleged offence to the "known" RK.

The same sort of limits apply to the 6 month rule. But it is not a limit on prosecution, but of laying the case info in court. The actual trial may happen outside this period.

Get over to PEPIPOO for better explanations.

Something else Ive often wondered is.

Do the mobile speed vans and their cameras always have an officer nearby to pull you over or will they often act like fixed cameras and just issue you a NIP in the following 2 weeks?

Speed vans usually have cameras within them to record the necessary detail of infringers to determine where to send the nip.
Where cameras aren't used (operators simply holding the bare speed gun), there'll be plod around to pull offenders and directly get that detail.

Seeing plod near 'camera vans' is usually a sign of an ANPR setup (checking correct documentation instead of speed).

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Yes and No.

My understanding is that the law states that the NIP must be served within 14 days.

Case law has determined that proof of postage using normal 1st class postage in sufficient time to allow for delivery within 14 days constitutes a rebuttable presumption that the document has been served.

What this impressive piece of legalese means is that in the absence of evidence to the contrary a court will accept this as proof of service. However, if there is credible evidence to rebut the presumption of service then the court should find that the document has not been served, and therefore there is no case to answer.

The problem is what constitutes credible evidence. In theory, the testimony of the registered keeper denying receiving the document should bear equal weight to the testimony of the prosecution, but in practice it would seem that a court will generally require something a bit more definite, eg independent testimony / evidence of complaints about post going missing.

In other words, if they say the documents landed on your doorstep but you know that they didn't, then the way it works is that you would need to prove that they never came. Quite apart from the obvious difficulties associated with proving a negative, this is also a rather perverse twist on the
fundamental legal principle of "innocent until proven guilty".

All in all a very unsatisfactory method of achieving "justice", especially when the prosecution would only need to sacrifice less than a pound of their precious profit in order to have documents delivered as "signed for", and thus entirely remove any doubt one way or the other. One can only presume that this doesn't happen because the Scamerati know that by and large the courts will find in their favour whatever the reality, therefore why spend more money in order to then lose cases where the documents weren't served (most of which they currently win by default). In order for this to change, there would have to be a fundamental shift in emphasis, such that justice were deemed more important than profit.

I'm not holding my breath...

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