Safe Speed Forums

How about saying something like "We will no longer be enforcing any technical laws, including speed restrictions and class restrictions especially where there are other suitable laws in place (eg. dangerous driving)."?
That would make people happy. Might loose revenue though. Ah well.

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Andrew.

Hi

I totally agree that "observation" is everything in safe driving.

Speed is totally immaterial, as long as you know what you are doing and know whats around you at all times.

When I came out of the Army (long long ago lol) I became a Top Fuel crew chief and worked and built engines that would get to nearly 300 mph, as crew chief it was also my job to test them on the track.

I can assure you that traveling at 280 to 290 mph is no different to traveling at 70 mph as long as you KNOW everything that happening around you and that your vehicle is safe....no bald tyres etc.

The problem today is that as has been said, because of the so called "speed kills" rubbish that the SCP puts out , people spend too much time looking at their speedo`s and not enough watching the road

Even I am guilty of being influenced by it...

I will give you a personal example, I had the rear windows of my Porsche tinted with "LIMO TINT" for a technical reason...that reason was that I run a 1000 hp Nitrous system with twin 15 lb bottles in the back, directly under the rear hatch glass and they were over heating in the sun....

Therefore I had the limo tint fitted as it cuts down incoming light and HEAT by 95%....

So it kept my Nitrous bottles cooler......I can post pictures of this if anyone is interested...?

The major problem with the tint was that it also cut out OUTGOING light, so if I looked in my rear view mirror even on a sunny day, it appeared to be very late evening....

So i had to fit a rear view camera and an LCD screen (clipped onto my interior mirror)

This was because I was worried about NOT seeing a Police car behind me

It worked but at around £300 was not cheap...

But at least I may keep my licence for a while.......

All the best Brett

P.S Thanks for the welcome SafeSpeedv2

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PORSCHE 928 S2 AUTO V8 4.7 LTR 1986 IRIS METALLIC BLUE WITH X-PIPES ,RMB ,PROMAX CHIPS, KICKDOWN SWITCH, K&N, WIZARDS OF NOS - PRO RACE NITROUS KIT 1000 HP.
EX - PCGB UK 928 FORUM MODERATOR - Email managingdirector@pchealthcare.co.uk

I couldn't tell you if it was modified, the RK didn't know either. The tyres didn't look out of proportion. I remember the car being N reg ish, so not new.


I have no reason to disagree with that. I've driven a lot of different cars and my suspicions were raised only with that one and I'm the only person I personally know of who has ever noticed such a problem.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Talking of being paranoid...

I have just got back from driving on the M42 towards Knowle where I had a dodgy moment today.

I used a brand new TomTom from work and as I was going from a slip road onto the M42, where it also peels-off to the M40, I accelerated to overtake a lorry on the inside lane with the intention of getting up to 70 to pull back in but the Sat Nav starts beeping at me to warn of scameras ahead. The Sat Nav was showing me the limit was 50mph but I could see the overhead signs were switched off so it should be the NSL of 70mph.

I found myself caught between looking at my speedo which was indicating 60mph at this point, trying to look ahead to see if there was indeed any speed restriction, looking in my rear view mirror at cars now looming up on me, wondering do I quickly finish my overtake manoeuvre or quickly brake and pull in behind the lorry which by now was just to my left. The situation was risky for me and others; truly ridiculous!

What I quickly figured out was there used to be road works there but the white speeding lines were still present across the lanes complete with the many cameras used to monitor it, but the Sat Nav still thought it was a 50 mph limit and looking at the road furniture convinces you even more.

All I thought afterwards was how dangerous all this safety nonsense is. If there were no cameras, like it was in the 80s, both myself and other drivers would have been safer but the scameras, together with the Sat Nav, could easily have made the situation much worse for a less experienced driver who doesn’t know the road or have my experience.

Left feeling anxious over this, I then also thought about what the Sat Nav kept telling me which was to “keep right”. I wondered to myself whether this isn’t adding to the middle or outer lane moron problem who take it literally or don’t want to take a chance keeping left in case they miss their junction.

I feel really sorry for this generation of new drivers, they will never know how good it can be or used to be.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Sorry to hear of your event the other day Tone. Sounds like the SatNav was behind the times ! To be placed in a position to believe with your eyes or your equipment, and threaten your license. I have joined roads where the cameras in place makes you question what speed it is and with some areas bad on repeater signs can make it almost impossible to be 'Absolutely' sure what it actually is. That uncertainty results in cars behaving unpredictably and causes further unpredictable driving, and why more accidents are happening.

This reminds me of the speed limit cars that were out on trial and someone has reported that the car on over-ride whilst he was overtaking a lorry, then decided that as he was just about to completed the manoeuvre he entered a 60mph zone - the car then reduced the car so that it would only then do 60mph. The car behind nearly went into the back of him thinking that he had lost his mind suddenly slowing when doing an overtake ! He felt in danger and could do nothing to alter it, other than to re-hit the over-ride, but by this time the lorry had braked to help, and the car completed the overtake with everyone around taking avoiding action to help make things safe.
He had started off liking the system but quickly hated it, the second incident was that it reset itself, while he went around a roundabout and instead of staying in gear it placed him in neutral ! Again another incident of others having to deal with his involuntary slowdown and unpredictable movements.
Cars behaving in a predictable manner that deal with predictable roads, that all conform to the same layouts, paints and furnishings make for safer roads. What we are facing are very unpredictable and very confusing different setups and speed limits.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

One point that I'm surprised hasn't come up yet is that this behaviour with the revs is most likely due to the torque converter in your gearbox. Automatics don't just have a simple set of fixed gear ratios like a manual does it also has the torque converter which as far as I can tell is simply a box of witchcraft that can act a bit like an extra gear and can also increase the amount of torque you put down to the wheels. There's a link at the bottom of that wiki article to a much more understandable HowStuffWorks.com article on the things but basically it's not unusual for revs to rise or fall with no change in speed when you have a torque converter in there.

If your car is not a true automatic but actually a DSG or SMG or similar then ignore this post.

I imagine so if a police officer sees you and thinks you shouldn't be doing it whilst you're driving, same for touching the radio or eating.

Well therein lies a whole range of the 'next level' of defense process in driver 'actions'.
What precisely makes the action of plugging in your seat belt, somehow less dangerous than pressing any 'button' / 'screen' on the satnav as you begin your journey ?

The principals are (IMHO) :
actions towards your body and away from,
the time taken to complete the actions,
actions that include any object that you temporarily hold as opposed to temporarily touch,
actions that include objects that remain in the hand for longer - and shorter time periods,
some actions that result in 'drifting in lane' driving and swerving (gentle and sharp manoeuvres)

The TrafPol (etc) can request that you stop if they see ANY action, that gives them rise to believe that something is not legal, or you have contravened a rule eg driving without due care ... etc

The aim is to ensure good control of the car at all times, which is fine but this is going beyond the pale. It is getting so picky that it leaves drivers unsure what is OK and what isn't. That causes mass confusion, and results in many undesired behaiviours inc panicking when drivers (some) see trafpol, cameras, etc They may not necessarily be doing anything wrong, it might take time to just double check the ever growing 'fault list' and then which part of the Country you are in, to know how strict any error maybe enforced.
The common sense predictable and expected behaviours are less clear and a confusing mess in it's specifics.
Even keeping up with the latest do's and don'ts is a matter of knowledge, not common sense (i.e drive responsibly at all times).
There is neigh nothing that is out there, to encourage good driving behaviours, so we can be totally certain what is good or accepted, (should be results from good unbiased researched), and what is known to be unacceptable, and also not just some fade or worse some money making exercise which is shameful.
No one knows it all, and research can throw up interesting results that can rightly make us question current belief, and do further research into those new ideas.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Let me get this straight, you drive off and THEN plug your seatbelt in and adjust the radio/satnav?



Well, I'd say it's quite clear that both your hands should be either on the steering wheel, or one hand on the wheel and one hand briefly on the gearstick (as long as it's safe to change gear).

Anything else is pushing it.

Sounds like you like to know that there's not a police car behind you so you CAN speed right?

Best way to keep your license is not to speed at all, not speed when you think there's nobody around to catch you at it.

No, sounds to me like he just wants to drive normally without the worrying if he is going to get done for driving normally.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

A lot of people do this, not saying I agree with it but it's pretty common.

One valid reason for doing this is it's perfectly legal to not wear a seatbelt while reversing and people of an, erm, larger stature than myself may need to do so in order to look behind them, combine this with another dumb but common practice, that of reversing out of the driveway onto a busy road, and you're not going to then stop, handbrake on, engine off, seatbelt on, start, drive are you?

I am talking about what I OBSERVE NOT what *I* do ! I see this a million times ! Person reverses out of e.g. parking space etc then is drifting about the road lane as they fix their seat belt in, usually over about 3 wobbles ....

Good driving is a varied mix of abilities, skill, knowledge and management of risk. Drivers and riders as we know vary right across the board, so all rules have to be proportionate to try to provide a clear and concise message (overall) of necessary safety and need. It is this core point (if I have made it well enough) that I am trying to contribute to this discussion, as I think rules are being so confused with, pure enforcement for he sake of it, than for real road safety, that it is of great concern.
Drivers / riders are unclear why they need to stop doing things, that they have done for years. We cannot ignore what goes on in the real world even if it does not constitute good driving. But interestingly, if those drivers/riders are doing things which, can be considered by others as 'bad habits', *are* they *SO* bad (?), or need to be enforced (?), IF they have never crashed etc.
Can it be, that, when 'done' (bad habit), and distracts driving/riding and then causes, an accident or other (nr miss etc), that it *is* bad. e.g. so then, bad enough for, (& justifiable/provable) enforcement.
The enforcement is then needed to prevent bad habits, (that are proven) that have been shown to lead to real driving / riding problems, that lead to accidents or death. AND then take this further, can this justify, that enforcement IS the best solution as opposed to say reminders of good behaviour through public info films, posters, etc etc ....
Enforcement should be reserved for REAL, proven, serious, problems, that have been PROVEN not to be unable to be dealt with in any other way. Our problem today is that these bad habits ARE NOT, necessarily that dangerous overall, and not proven to be the BEST way to educate and encourage Good behaviours. e.g. a person who generally never eats in the car, one day is suddenly really hungry and grabs a sweet - now a camera catches it and they receive a 3 points / fine !
They will continue to drive and continue to grab a sweet on the odd occasion- nothing changed other than the gov gets a fine and the person drive hating the police/gov for a perceived un-necessary, law that now makes their driving a little more expensive and a LOT more paranoid. No knowledge about why, has been taught, but is there any real world reason as to why grabbing a sweet PROVEN to be SO bad. Can a poster /reminders/ better stopping places encourage better behaviours (etc) help discourage it better?
We know it goes on, should it be discouraged or enforced ?
WHY do people do this? None of this is answered or been taught to the public - why the police/gov have deemed it necessary to do this? Nothing. No stats, no =we have tried x and failed, nothing.
This then results in no respect by the public for yet another perceived draconian law that brings in money to the police/gov .... disrespect and rift of police/public continues ... full descending circle continues ... HENCE why I am so concerned ...

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Hi

The point was that EVERYONE speeds...and I do mean EVERYONE...INCLUDING YOU....

Even if its only at 31 in a 30 limit, as you cannot watch your speedo every second...

I needed the rear camera for observation ...for Police cars and anything else I needed to see as I like to know EVERYTHING that is around me at all times....

All the best Brett

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PORSCHE 928 S2 AUTO V8 4.7 LTR 1986 IRIS METALLIC BLUE WITH X-PIPES ,RMB ,PROMAX CHIPS, KICKDOWN SWITCH, K&N, WIZARDS OF NOS - PRO RACE NITROUS KIT 1000 HP.
EX - PCGB UK 928 FORUM MODERATOR - Email managingdirector@pchealthcare.co.uk

Well quite, but there's a huge difference between trying to stay at 30 and dipping over by one or two mph than choosing to drive at 35 to 40.




Oh please, provide an example of somebody being done for speeding after doing 31 in a 30.

I manage to maintain 30 in a 30 limit without looking at my speedo every second, if you can't I'd recommend you get a car you can control a little better!

It's not a valid reason though is it; if a police officer sees you travelling forwards whilst plugging in your seatbelt, he's going to nick you, twice, once for not wearing a seatbelt and once for careless/dangerous driving, especially if you're weaving over the road.

(and maybe a third time as you take a pedestrian out whilst fumbling around a looking down at your seatbelt retainer, death by dangerous driving, up to 14 years in clink, ouch)

Gosh Weepej, I wish I was as perfect as you!!!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Eh?

You never adjust your radio once you've started driving

I suspect you've decided to misinterpret the words "pressing any 'button' / 'screen' on the satnav" as meaning 'setting it up to find a destination', as opposed to making adjustments like volume/muting or turning off.


Do you drive?

What about using the indicators, using the wipers, adjusting the climate control, opening the windows, adjusting the sun visor - are these 'pushing it'? Then there are the hands-free devices... yes, it's all quite clear!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I was actually more interested in the snapping home of a seatbelt after soembody has set off.



Yes, I do adjust my radio and aircon and I do perform simple operations the satnav, as does everybody else. But that still won't cut it if a police officer sees you doing one or more of these things and decides you shouldn't be, so anything else is pushing it right?