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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 08:23 
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http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/436 ... _memorial/


BN wrote:
Road crash victims to get permanent memorial
8:00am Wednesday 13th May 2009

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A PERMANENT memorial for road crash victims is being planned for Bolton.

Council chiefs are launching a consultation exercise on a proposed roadside tributes policy.


Your Vote
Is the proposed permanent memorial a good idea?

Yes:
54%

No:
46%



As part of plans being considered, memorials placed at the scene of accidents, such as flowers and photographs, would be removed after 30 days.

In their place, a monument or tree at a central location in the borough would become the centrepiece of a permanent memorial site.

Queens Park, Heaton Crematorium, Heaton Cemetery and the grounds of Bolton Parish Church in Churchgate are being considered as potential sites for the memorial.

Cllr Nick Peel, the council’s executive member for environmental services, said: “The sight of floral tributes and other mementoes at the roadside has become far more common over recent years.

“To some people they are a way of recognising and remembering that a tragedy occurred, but to others they are a distraction or an unwanted reminder that someone died in their neighbourhood.”

The new policy could also include imposing similar time limits on repeat memorials at anniversaries and the council keeping non-perishable items for 90 days, giving families the chance to retrieve photographs and cuddly toys often left at the scenes of crashes.

The consultation is set to start this week via the council’s Scene newspaper and its website.

All opinions voiced will help shape the policy, which will then go before the council’s Executive for approval.

The council then plans to produce a leaflet which will be given out to the relatives of road crash victims setting out its process. As plans are in the early stages, the finer details, such as who would enforce any new rules are yet to be decided.

Peter Molyneux, the council’s assistant director of highways and engineers, said: “The 30 days will be a notice period during which we hope the families would be minded to remove the tributes themselves without the council having to do so.

“We want to set out from the start what is going to happen and then we will deal with it in a very sensitive way.”

Although the consultation process is yet to start, campaigners from the Manchester branch of Road Peace, the charity which helps relatives of road crash victims, have given their backing to a idea of a permanent memorial.

Sandra Dutson said: “It is a very emotive issue. It sounds like Bolton Council is trying to approach it in a very sensitive way and any kind of permanent memorial is always welcome.”

Cllr Peel added: “We will treat each case separately but we need to have a broad policy in place. We know it is a case of balancing the needs of the relatives of victims and those of local residents.”

The survey will be available in the council’s Scene newspaper, online at http://www.bolton.gov.uk/roadsidetributes and from the consultation and research team on 01204 332012.

The deadline for completing surveys is June 15.



Reader poll seems tight on each side.


What do SS-ers think? :scratchchin:

I've popped it in this section as I think it's a safety issue re. potential distraction.

I think it's a fair policy to allow the symbols of grief/remembrance/respect at the road side for 30 days before moving to a set location.

Personally - we use the graves themselves to place our flowers/candles .. and remember our lost loved ones as this is a permanent resting place for lost family/friends and a part of our lives too - giving us a set place to mourn and remember them.

.

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 08:27 
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Who will pay for this permanent memorial?

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 09:17 
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Presumably the Council would pay for the ground preparation, then look to relatives to pay for individual markers, be that trees or plaques.
Our district council are so strapped for cash, they can no longer afford to administer the placement of memorial trees and benches - they now ask relatives to consider some other option!
They used to employ a tree officer - but have not done so for several years.
They recently caused controversy when rather than repair benches at a local beauty spot, they simply took them away and scrapped them!
Memorials should be a means of funding - but it is they cannot afford to employ somebody to collect the money, then everybody is losing out.

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 14:36 
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I have to admit to being very confused about a permanent memorial. It's people that have died in accidents, why do they deserve a memorial?

What's wrong with gravestones as said before?

We rightly have memorials for war dead - they died fighting to protect us (or in a pointless war - but that's a different discussion, they still died doing their duty).

I don't see the reason for it. And I certainly don't expect the same if a family member dies on the road, or if I do.

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 16:01 
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Pratnership,

I guess there are many people out there who are more sensitive to such losses than you are; that's not a dig at you, it's just impassionate, logical reasoning.

This is how some people choose to grieve; I won't stop them.

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 16:28 
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Oh that's a given, but will it get to the stage where people want memorials for everything? People dying in a fire, people fell of their bike, etc.

Talking in a very insensitive way, I wouldn't want to pay for a memorial, or the upkeep. I just can't see any sense in it at all.

And what happens when there are (inevitably) more road deaths? Do we create a lot of space on the original memorial for additions, or just make others? Or just say no to people who ask for another one, because there isn't the funds/space etc?

Everyone deserves the right to grieve, but you have to inject some sense somewhere.

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 16:55 
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Pratnership wrote:
Oh that's a given, but will it get to the stage where people want memorials for everything? People dying in a fire, people fell of their bike, etc.

I see nothing wrong with that, but......

Pratnership wrote:
Talking in a very insensitive way, I wouldn't want to pay for a memorial, or the upkeep.

That's fair enough.
TBH I thought you were talking about the roadside tributes, not about permanent memorials; my bad. Now I see your point.

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 16:57 
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My bad, should have said.

Probably seem very evil if I looked like I was on about roadside flowers!

Edit: I did say :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 17:00 
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Personally I can't see the point of leaving flowers at the roadside when someone dies there, to me it would be the same as leaving flowers at hospital bedsides, on pavements ,in shops and anywhere where someone might die of a heart attack or old age.

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 17:42 
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graball wrote:
Personally I can't see the point of leaving flowers at the roadside when someone dies there, to me it would be the same as leaving flowers at hospital bedsides, on pavements ,in shops and anywhere where someone might die of a heart attack or old age.


Please don't give those with Diana Syndrome aka Public Grieving Syndrome more ideas! :shock:

In some respects I would support local main memorials and even a national day where the deaths are noted, it might bring to the general public's notice how poor the current road safety strategies are.

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 20:32 
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graball wrote:
Personally I can't see the point of leaving flowers at the roadside when someone dies there, to me it would be the same as leaving flowers at hospital bedsides, on pavements ,in shops and anywhere where someone might die of a heart attack or old age.


I think the point is that the memorial reminds people that somebody died there, and that others may take heed when driving past it if, more so if they they happen to be driving stupidly at the time.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 20:49 
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Most of the flowers left in our area are on junctionsthat need sorting out by the local authorities,( clear lines of turning/filtering lanes which have been faded for years would be a start), it still doesn't seem to stir the council into doing anything though!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 21:56 
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http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... rew_grimes


MEN wrote:
Opinion: Andrew Grimes
May 15, 2009

SOME months ago it became impossible to go into a highly popular and impeccably respectable pub through the front door because the paving was blocked with flowers and cards in tribute to a young man who had been murdered inside.

Nobody tried to move them and they stayed there for well over six weeks.

I think, on reflection, this, though unsettling, was a genuine expression of widespread sorrow over an awful, one-off tragedy which it would have been callous to curtail.

But moving towards that pub from whatever direction it was necessary to pass many other floral commemorations quite unconnected.

Far more people are killed in road crashes than are murdered. It's a tragic manifestation of 21st century recklessness. But is it pardonable to commemorate every accidental one of them for months with a huge floral pile at every fatal spot?

More to the point, is it safe? I suppose it could be argued that a floral memento mori strewn by the roadside might remind motorists of their own mortality and encourage them to drive more carefully.

Cenotaphs

But does it? A taxi-driver rattling me across town the other night told me he was sick of seeing so many junction verges turned into home-made cenotaphs.

"They don't really put me off," he said, after we had passed the second array of wreaths, cards and teddy bears. "But I'm a professional driver and I don't have a dicky heart. Sooner or later, one of these things is going to put some poor swerving sod in the same place as the departed."

One can understand why the grieving family of a crash victim may want to mark the spot where their relation came to a premature end. I do not criticise them. But this show of mourning does not stop with them.

For certain sorts of people, the news of a fatal accident draws them to its site like vultures to carrion. They decline to be left out of the obsequies, piling more vegetation and toys on the tributes laid by the genuinely bereaved.

It has become a trend. I guess it was started, 13 years ago, by the mass decoration of The Mall with flowers and toys and balloons by huge crowds wailing hysterically over Princess Diana.

An elderly woman, you may remember, was actually arrested for 'stealing' one of the rain-sodden teddy bears.

Accidental

She probably wanted a permanent relic on her mantelpiece. From thereon, every accidental death became a magnet for weirdos who, in past times, would have earned their livings as professional wailers.

Alert to the potentially hazardous nuisance of magnetic roadside shrines are nearly all the councils of Greater Manchester, though nervously so. Some, to be sure, are thinking of implementing a strict 30 day limit on them.

But Bolton's wants to consult public opinion before making up its mind. That almost certainly guarantees that the town's huge army of funeral gate-crashers will threaten to burn down the town hall if they are denied the democratic right to join in the grief of strangers.

Manchester is offering a crash-site plaque to families whose flowers they have removed. Oldham is keeping out of it. "The flowers," it says, "will stay until they have perished" - unless they obstruct the highway.

Elsewhere, some towns are setting aside plots for plaques in parks and cemeteries. Would these be less vandal-proof than memorials to dead soldiers? And is it, anyway, a good idea to treat crash deaths as unavoidable and valiant as deaths in war? Surely, it would better to abolish junction blind spots and to impose life-long driving bans on maniacs.

No man is an island, and all that. The instinct to weep for the grief of others is innate. But so, in some, is the impulse to become characters in a wail-fest as scripted for a dark episode in Coronation Street.


[/quote]

Per BRAKE .. Pc Gatso "commemorates the spot. :popcorn:

Rotting flowers =waste. I like them to be alive, growing. reproducing. As for cuddly toys? NAFF token of disrespect.

The discreet plaque per Manshester seems reasonable to me. :popcrorn: Though if me or my wife dies by our own stupidity - I'm sure the tombstone as erected by family would say so for eternity,. :yikes:

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It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 10:03 
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Putting my "scientific and engineering" hat on for the moment, so this may come across as sounding insensitive - which isn't the intention:

A while back there was a fatal crash near here (junction of B4058 and Old London Road, Pratnership will know exactly where I mean and will probably remember the incident). The town I live being what it is I've heard several different stories as to what happened but as far as I can ascertain some kid in a souped-up Astra attempted to overtake/overcooked the bend/had a blow-out (those were 3 versions that I heard!) and ended up spinning out backwards into a tree, causing his car to burst into flames. He didn't get out in time.

Tragic, yes, regardless of who was at fault. But this junction is nasty. It comes out at a very sharp angle like a motorway slip road (only it's a single-track lane) - trying to get a link on Multimap but it's not playing ball. Search for Old London Road, GL12 on Multimap and look to the north-east of Wotton-Under-Edge.

So what do people do? Dump flowers, photographs, teddy bears etc in a huge shrine at the crash site.

A site which already has limited visibility. Putting all that crap there makes it impossible to see when you're turning out.

So the "lasting tribute" that well-meaning friends and family will leave? More than likely another fatal crash at the same site, caused this time by blocked sight lines.

Unfortunately it's an example of what this country has become. People get so wrapped up in their own grief (and believe me I do feel for them so don't think I'm being insensitive!) that they don't stop to think of the simple fact that dumping a huge pile of flowers and teddy bears at a junction that already suffers from poor visibility is going to result in only one outcome - another accident.

Am I being over-dramatic? Perhaps. But I just wish people would use their brains sometimes!

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