Safe Speed Forums

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/ ... 05,00.html

M-way limit may rise to 80mph to smooth traffic flow

Kamal Ahmed, political editor
Sunday April 11, 2004
The Observer

Britain's motorway speed limit of 70mph will be replaced with an 80mph 'variable' limit under plans being considered by the Department for Transport.

Government officials have told The Observer the blanket 70mph limit does little to educate drivers that safe driving does not only depend on speed but on road conditions.

The Transport Department is looking at whether variable limits, already in place along parts of the M25 around London and M42 in the Midlands, could be used to introduce an 80mph limit if con ditions are dry and the motorway is relatively traffic-free.

'You could have a 50mph limit enforced if the weather is bad or the road is crowded and this would be balanced by an 80mph limit where conditions are good,' said a Whitehall source. 'The technology needed to do this will be available in five years.'

Ministers have been impressed by the use of variable speed limits to control traffic flow along busy sections of motorway. By slowing traffic down when driving conditions are poor there are fewer accidents and less chance of traffic jams building up. A higher limit in good conditions would then stop 'crimi nalising' drivers who are still driving at safe speeds.

The Government is also responding to a Conservative pledge to raise the motorway speed limit to 80mph, which is believed to be popular with the public.

Edmund King, executive director of the RAC Foundation, said he backed an 80mph limit as long as it is enforced and is 'not seen as a limit that means 90mph'.

The 70mph limit was introduced in 1967 when car design and road handling were much more primitive. Any change is likely to be attacked by environmentalists because fuel consumption rises rapidly between 70 and 80mph.
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That's a really daft comment from Edmund King. I shall speak to him.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I think it sounds like a good idea. (Heck, I posted a thread on this issue not so long ago). Nice to see that the Conservatives have stirred things up a little! I'm curious as to what form it'll take though. Will all matrix signs be on permanently, saying either '50' or '80' (provided they have nothing else to say)? Or are drivers to assume that they're in an 80 limit until told otherwise? Etc, etc.

Anyway, it'll probably get trialled down south, so I don't need to worry about it for another 20 years until we catch up up here!



Rises rapidly? Is that really the case? Does this mean that the large number of people who regularly drive at 80mph (and faster!) are creating a significant environmental problem?



You can see what he's saying though. Given what we know about speed enforcement, you'll avoid being pulled/flashed at any speed up to 90mph [80 + (80/10) + 2]. And he's obviously concerned that 90mph is too fast a speed to be 'legal' on the roads. Whether this is true or not is a different matter...

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

I'd like to see variable speed limits on A-roads (and other roads) too.

And I'd like to see steps in 5s (like they have in the USA). For example, there could be 25mph zones and 35mph zones.

I'd like to see more barriers - even the big plastic ones they put up temporarily would probably have a decent enough effect to stop vehicles coming off the road or crossing the carriageway if a driver does lose control, and that surely has to be the biggest cause of serious accidents.

We're currently seeing a lot of 20 mph zones in residential areas, which is a ludicrously slow speed for 400 yards of a wide, clear road.

But if in urban areas we had 25 mph residential streets and 35 mph through routes it would defuse much of the criticism and be a much better reflection of reality.

Regards,

Peter

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Yes, and I also think these speed limits would be better respected.

I'm also interested to know why several trunk roads in London reduced their speed limits from 70 directly down to 50 (what was wrong with 60?).

For example, Western Avenue (A40) steps from 70 to 50 heading into town and 50 to 70 outward.

Heading East (into London) the speed limit is reduced to 40mph just before the Hoover Building (well the Hoover Building is where the camera is). And perhaps that's the right spot because traffic starts to merge in at that point, and the left lane is also becoming an exit lane for the Hanger Lane Gyratory. Also the area is a bit built up.

In the other direction, there are no hazards once the merge from the Gyratory has passed and that side is not built up, yet the limit remains at 40mph, and I've even seen the Police patrolling it. The speed limit goes up just before the junction of Argyle Road, where the road becomes more hazardous. In fact the speed limit is 50mph on the A40 exit slip-road itself.

Makes no noticable difference to my car. I've tried sticking to a steady 60-70 mph and compared it to driving between 80 and 100 mph. Difference was less than 1 mpg, though as my car only does about 25 to the gallon so that could be the reason

How come the technology to allow variable limts up to 80mph isn't going to be available for five years? It's been on the M25 for over ten years. How hard is it to reprogram the signs to show 80 as well as lower limits? This sounds like a sneaky vote-us-in-again-and-we'll-think-about-it job. Or bulls*** in other words.

I think that was in relation to automatically adjusting depending on the weather, as well as traffic levels.

Ah, fair enough. I didn't consider the weather aspect. Still, in the meantime surely it could be dealt with by a human operator.

You mean the same human operators who leave signs flashing "50" for 6 hours after the danger has passed?

Yeah, them. In fairness though I've only ever come across this on the M25 once, but it was pretty extreme. 11.30pm at a weekend I got to J10 in very light traffic and found the 50mph signs were on. I assumed there'd been an accident or something, but after a few miles it seemed like some clown had just forgotten to turn 'em off. Perhaps a mixture of coffee and donut crumbs had jammed the switch. For all I know the dopey lot left 'em on all night. But I've never seen it since. Maybe it happens more often than I realize and I've just been lucky, but the amount of miles of put in on the M25 since the variable limits were put in I'd have expected to see it more than once if it was a regular problem.

I think it depends on the roads you use. I travel the A1-M1 link road, around Leeds, twice a day, and see the matrix signs left on an average 2-3 times a week.


Kaz

Yeah, the M25 is probably quite well controlled because it's so busy. But other stretches of motorway are less so - I quite regularly see the matrix signs between M1 J4-5 left on for a day or more at a time.

I had this very situation on the M180 heading towards Grimsby, the matrix signs had been left on 50, so I called the local police control room and asked if they could be switched off.
I was told that there Had been an accident an hour previously, and I told them that as I had travelled the full length of the motorway and not seen a single accident on either side it must have been cleared away.
I was then told that they had been left on as a matter of safety.
I replied, and you wonder why drivers ignore the things, why slow drivers on a quiet motorway, from 5 miles away, and then they find there's nothing there.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

I had this very situation on the M180 heading towards Grimsby, the matrix signs had been left on 50, so I called the local police control room and asked if they could be switched off.
I was told that there Had been an accident an hour previously, and I told them that as I had travelled the full length of the motorway and not seen a single accident on either side it must have been cleared away.
I was then told that they had been left on as a matter of safety.
I replied, and you wonder why drivers ignore the things, why slow drivers on a quiet motorway, from 5 miles away, and then they find there's nothing there.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

Fair enough. I stand corrected. If some operators are going to think along those lines maybe it wasn't such a great idea.