Safe Speed Forums

My dad is the registered keeper of my car so any NIP's would go to him, I kept him as it as he lived close by anyway and never bothered to change it. ( my car came from him)

He has now moved house and rented his previous place out (he hasnt moved far only 5 minutes walk). My question is if the new tenants didnt give him his mail or lost/missed it, what would happen to any 28 day rule regarding sending it back? We dont have any of the forms to change the registered keeper or address.

The form you use is your car log book. V5 ?
the 28 day rule is to deliver the first nip to the registered address. It is not the plods problem if you dont keep up with your paperwork.

If you did not respond within 28 days he could be prosicuted for section 172.
The address you use to register a car should be an address at which you can be contacted. In the event of a nip being delivered there and not being delbt with he would have to display to the court good reason why he was not able or diligent in dealing with the nip. The lodgers lost my mail or I was Ill so I didnt collect the post might wash with a court... or it might not.

In practice he could stall; a couple of months, ask for photos, then name you, you could ask for photos, then name yourself then not pay the fine wait 28 days.... It is very hard to string this all out 6 months. They would probobly send your dad a summons for section 172 instead.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

I will have to dig out the paperwork I guess.

Just occured to me since I was used to him living there so there was no issue.

I would imagine the new tennants who are the daughter and boyfriend of one of his friends would give him any mail, but you never know.

Also what happens if you both use the car and you get a nip and arent sure who was driving, will the photos always show the face so you can tell?

Thanks.

Its 14 days for valid delivery of a NIP not 28. That has to be to the registered address, they have about 6 months for any second or subsequent NIP.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

Yes but I mean 28 days return time, for idenitifying the driver.

Then you got to say that, anything else would be lying and that's not a good thing to do to the justice system, it will come down on you like a ton of bricks if it can show you were lying.

You can take the above advice two ways.
If you say that you have no idea who was driving at the time of the [alleged] offence you will [probably] be the subject of an investigation in case there is conspiracy (etc)
If you say you were driving, and they have a photo and you are NOT the driver, then you will definitely be the subject of a prosecution, along with any other [alleged] co-conspirator.
You will also be required to name other [possible] drivers.

Heads they win.
Tails you lose.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Well thats just stupid.

If on here a site which is dedicated to safety and well being people have such ridicule for the law and justice system then why does it still happen and why are these laws in place?

Are they trying to create more criminals by making everything so difficult?

Its quite easy for someone whos the registered keeper to assume it was them driving and give it in and everything. But that would be wrong in case it wasnt them who was driving.

Very soon we wont be allowed to drive, we might as well just give in to the pressure now.

Being ecomomical with the truth and playing the rules is now the game. Ask our MP's , first home for tax reasons, second home for expenses. claiming for paid off mortgages, essential maintance on a duck island, MP for Luton lives? in Southampton, his and hers second homes and tax advice for free without paying tax on it.

These are the people making the laws we are trying to comply with.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Eh?

An offence is commited in a vehicle registered to you, you're asked to say who was driving the car at the time.

If you know then you must say who it was, if you can find out you must find out and say who it was.

If you genuinely don't know you can't say you know who it was ( if you genuinely don't know but do say who it was then that's lying).

If you genuinely thought it was you (or somebody else), but it wasn't and you were mistaken then you are on slightly dodgy ground, you do have a responsibility to know who's driving your car.

If you genuinely knew who it was driving the car but lie knowlingly then expect a prison sentence, contempt of court I believe (nothing to do with the original offnce).

(not legal advice, just my take on it)

The police have done all they could to send the nip to the address where they could expect to find the registered keeper.
The fact that you failed to do what you are legally required to do, change the address, means that the nip was correctly served. The 14 day for delivery does not apply.
It looks as if your father has to reply to the nip, not you.
He will then say that you, and not him, are the owner and driver.

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

section 172 can be found here. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1991/uk ... -pb9-l1g21

"(b)
the person on whom the notice is served shall not be guilty of an offence under this section if he shows either that he gave the information as soon as reasonably practicable after the end of that period or that it has not been reasonably practicable for him to give it."

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

True.
But his father is the one who the nip will go to as the registered keeper of the vehicle.
He will then have to fill the part in stating he was not driving it and send it back, since he did not KNOW who was driving it, AT THE TIME OF THE OFFENCE, he will be unable to supply that information. He may decide to tell them that you are the owner. In any case THE POLICE HAVE DONE ALL THEY ARE REQUIRED TO DO IN REGARD OF SERVING THE NOTICE. The 14 day limit for delivery does not apply with respect to YOU. You do not have to do anything, your father does.

http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/procedure/notice_of_intended_prosecution.htm

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Yeah, I understand, although I think the question of the post was missed slightly. I understand all about the 14 days to the reg keeper, longer if not etc. I was just curious because at present my dad has just moved so the notice would go to his tenants. I was concerned that during this 'limbo' period if a nip was recieved what would happen if the tennants for example forgot to give him any left over mail or just assumed it was junk. Would the police just send another notice out after 28 days saying nothing had been returned?

I'll have to find them forms asap I suppose.

Since when did safety and well being have anything to do with the law and justice system?

Not for a long time as far as traffic law went...

I have personally tried to get the authorities to comply with thier own laws, type approval, codes of practice. They have chosen to lie, cheat and cloudy those rules and regs. They ridicule themselves and thier laws.

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

The NIP was produced and sent to the address given as that of the keeper of the vehicle.
SERVICE of that notice is presumed by the mailing.
The procedures for failing to return should start after the given period.
They MAY even send any notice or summons to that same address.

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

You are (as far as I can tell from what you have posted ) the one who owns the car. It is registered in someone else's name at an address neither of you lives at. I think your comment is correct.


If you know who was driving you say so. if you don't know, you name those who might have been. Why is that difficult?

_________________
I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

I think its a case of WILL not MAY. After all, its the only address they have.

_________________
I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

At present you are under no obligtaion as it is your father who has been served the NIP.

IMO he should write to the Staffs scammers outlining the situation and, maybe under a sworn oath?? stating that you are rightfully the 'keeper'.

This may then result in you recieving your own NIP which you will then have 28 days to reply to.

if you genuinely don't know who was driving and you have done everything a reasonable person could have done then you are not guilty of an offence.