Safe Speed Forums

A Sabre thread, and my experience today made my consider this.

On the A36 Warminster bypass today, I was flashed by eight out of about fifteen vehicles coming towards me (and I suspect some of the others only didn't because they were behind other vehicles and didn't want to cause confusion) to alert me to a camera van ahead.

Said camera van in a layby on the first fast section after many tortuous miles of single carriageway .

Set me to thinking: I wonder how much such acts of camaraderie between motorists cost the scamera partnerships in lost revenue?

It's also interesting just how universal warning oncoming traffic of a speed trap is becoming.

Certainly appears to indicate that the enforcement of speed limits is not widely supported.

It's also worth noting that the combined flash and thumb down is becoming the signal of choice.

There was a speed check in my village this evening (as I drove by at 20mph behind a tractor).

My neighbour was just leaving when I got home so I made a point of telling her about it. Am I perverting the course of justice?

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

You only have to read the comments after any article in any paper, about speed limits/cameras to see that the vast majority of commemts are AGAINST lower limits and cameras...at last the British public is starting to see through the "speed kills" scam.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Interesting point, if the stated aim of speed enforcement is to be believed, then no, you did a valuable service by ensuring that your neighbour did not exceed the limit and was therefore safe.

Sadly as we all know that is a complete lie, the camera partnerships exist only make money, thus if you were discovered to have prevented someone from speeding, doubtless some form of prosecution would ensue!

I'm sure there was a case way back when a lorry driver was acquitted of whatever-you-get-charged-with-when-they-catch-you-alerting-motorists-to-a-speed-trap, because he would have to have been proved to have known that those he was warning were currently breaking the speed limit.

How can remonstrating with a criminal be perverting the course of justice? If you saw a young women being mugged should you not intervene for fear of perverting the course of justice.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

So if, for example, you stood half a mile before a speed trap holding a sign reading "Speed trap ahead" you would indeed stop many potential criminals for commiting a crime. So really you should be commended for such a public service?

Indeed you should. You would save the many KSIs caused by exceeding the speed limit. Really, the camera people can't have it both ways. Either they want to catch speeding motorists or they want speeding to stop. If it is the latter than a man with a sign is more effective than the camera.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Ah I wish I could recall but there have been cases taken to Court where someone has (on a few occasions) tried to warn traffic of SCV and been successfully prosecuted ! ... I really and sadly have not got the time right now to go digging for it but I had lengthy discussions with Paul about it, and so I am sure it is in the forums a little while back ... buried in work right now ! sorry chaps.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

If he had stood by the road side waving red flag could he have been charged under the same legislation, I wonder?

Or would putting that sign up when there wasn't a camera be an offence.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

The answer is £0.00

The Camera Partnerships get a fixed amount in an annual grant.

The amount doesn't change depending on the number caught.

The most profitable operation would be one that took the grant and didn't carry out any speed enforcement activity; revenue does not determine the income.

Profit isn't an objective unless you count the reduction in casualties as a benefit to the economy.

It costs the motorist up to £120M annually.


What factor was used to set the grant level in the first place?


In which case you can count SCP activities as a catastrophic loss thanks to their displacement of trafpol (we have less of them even though net driving has increased). Real trafpol detects any form of dangerous driving (as opposed to what might be a single type of technical infringement), stops it there and then (as opposed to penalising days, or even months later), whilst disallowing circumvention of the enforcement system.
Do cameras stop drink drivers?

Of course an underlying problem here is the massive exaggeration of the 'reduction of casualties' that the SCP staff continue to perpetrate (their claims of casualty reduction at camera sites never account for: RTTM, long-term trends, 'bias on selection')

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............

http://www.highways.gov.uk/aboutus/documents/crs_temp_speed_nettingoff.pdf

Now, why did I wonder about road works ?

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Fantastic bit of irrelevant hair-splitting there Greenshed.

So all the fine money gets collected, and the revenue vans are maintained by a grant.

And you expect anyone whop doesn't work for an SCP to believe that the two are entirely unconnected, lol.

Since we publicise where our vsn will operate and give some clues as to where the fleet out there may be a-lurkin' - see no issue with other folk telling others to slow it down. It;s about safety and not coffers. You have to prove this fact to the public. Durham and N Yorks win. Others fail.


But it's not about one upmanship and perceived brownie points for the authorities. It's about making our roads safer and each life matters out there.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

So Durham and N.Yorks are doing; in your opinion; exactly what the 40 or so other partnerships were doing 8 or so years ago but are now somehow winners. How does that work?

I'm a motorist with 4 vehicles and it costs me £0.00


I can help you there. The annual number of killed, serious and slight casualties in each county calculated from a 1994-8 average were given a weighted sum and allocated to each county accordingly then the amount was adjusted annually between 2007 to 2011.


There's nothing to stop police doing exactly that. They don't polish my shoes or cut my hair either; how many more irrelevant activities can you think of?


That's bollix you and your chums have made up and exaggerate with monotonous regularity.

It hasn't cost me anything either, not since I've held my licence.
Neither of these takes away from the fact that it costs motorists in general up to £120m annually


Thankyou, but my question was only half answered. The total grant is set to £110M per annum, which is surprisingly close to the annual revenue of ~£120m - coincidence?
While I accept the current grant level isn't dependent on the number of offenders being caught (locally) , it is based upon the number which was (or is) caught (nationally).


Yes there is: the skewed perceptions and misguided policies based on grossly exaggerated claims of camera effectiveness, resulting with only the one method being able to cost recover - the ineffective method, at the expense of funding of the other method (trafpol).
The very basic and undeniable fact is that trafpol numbers have reduced, even though traffic levels have increased - is that a good thing?


Really? Did we make up table H7 of the Four Year Evaluation Report? Care to remind us all how that doesn’t apply to the current (and continued) claims of "KSIs have reduced by 40/50/60% at camera sites"? Care to remind us what the scheme effect is relative to the KSI reduction at the sampled urban sites?
Or are you denying SCPs claim their effectiveness without accounting for RTTM and long-term trends? (we can address 'bias on selection later').

This is something SCPs staff and their chums outright dismiss "with monotonous regularity".

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Ummm - we are doing as we've always done since pre-Garvin. Used a van and cams/toys/gadgets in all the cars. Funny but it works

But all Gatso tins do not house cameras as we all know. The vans operate regularly at known spots. Our customers are observed for a bit more than a couple of yards past the cam...and some get more than a speeding ticket as a result ;wink:

We thus rid the roads of the worse drivers perhaps..


(Waits for SteveC to come back with a nananana! so there - with a couple of raspberries!)

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.