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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 13:21 
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BBC.co.uk wrote:
Anti-speeding volunteer attacked

A female volunteer on an anti-speeding scheme has been attacked while monitoring roads in a Surrey village.

The 63-year-old Community Speedwatch volunteer was assaulted on Hamesmoor Road, Mytchett.

A man thought to be in his late teens asked to borrow a pen then returned to push the woman and grab her clipboard. [that's "assault"?]

Police have appealed for witnesses to the attack at the junction with Minehurst Road on Wednesday evening to contact them.

The man is described as a clean-shaven white man of slim build, about 6ft (1.8m) tall, with dark hair and a worn, pale complexion.

He was wearing a dark hooded top, dark trousers and a red and black scarf around his face. He spoke with a southern accent and had yellow or gold painted fingernails.

Det Con Stuart Pittaway, from Surrey Police, said: "This was a particularly cowardly and unprovoked attack on an elderly resident who was trying to help her local community by participating in the Speedwatch scheme to educate drivers on a road where there are two schools." [so why do this during the "evening"?]

The police-supported schemes, which began in Surrey in 2006, are run by volunteers to re-educate drivers about the dangers of speeding, address residents' concerns and reduce traffic noise and pollution.

Before certain folk start foaming at the mouth: I should point out that the assailant hasn't been described as a motorist (or passenger) and there is no indication the volunteer was attacked because she was a speed watcher - this could simply be a case of mindless thuggery (read the description of the assailant :roll: ) and our victim could simply have been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 13:50 
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Steve wrote:
[that's "assault"?]


My thoughts exactly. I could make a list of people who've been assaulted worse by random strangers, several hospitalised, none of whom had news inches dedicated to them, or much police interest at all.

:?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 14:23 
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Quote:
He spoke with a southern accent and had yellow or gold painted fingernails.


...!

That's...odd.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 15:27 
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If the person shouted at her: That's assault (Maximum when tried summarily: Level 5 fine and/or 6 months
Maximum when tried on indictment: 5 years)
If the person touched her without consent: That's assault.
If she suffered ANY sort of injury, including bruising: That's assault occasioning actual bodily harm
If he took her pen without touching her: That's theft
If he touched her in the taking of the pen: That's robbery
If the person SAID to her "give me that pen or else": That's robbery

As an aside, if you assault someone with your car (deliberately open the door onto them for instance) you could be prosecuted for abh, be disqualified and have the vehicle seized and sold!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 16:03 
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This is clearly assault and should not be excused by anyone.

Quote:
The police-supported schemes, which began in Surrey in 2006, are run by volunteers to re-educate drivers about the dangers of speeding, address residents' concerns and reduce traffic noise and pollution.

I wonder how the re-education (a word redolent of Stalin and Mao) is done by this volunteer in person? Does she stop the driver and talk sternly to them? (Would this be assault if I think she is shouting?) If I reported a strange woman standing by the road making a nuisance of herself infringing my human right to privacy, would the police stop her?

The real issue here is that she doesn't want the traffic driving down "her" bit of road at any speed.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 16:15 
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Are we soon going to get anti thieving volunteers, approaching us and giving us lectures as we enter supermarkets or anti "pi@@ed as a f@@t" volunteers approaching us as we enter pubs......

some people really do need to realise what the job of the police is and leave them to get on with what they are, supposed to, be paid for.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 16:24 
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jomukuk wrote:
If the person shouted at her: That's assault

I would have thought that should be threatening behaviour (I'm not saying your info is wrong).
Do you have a link for these?

jomukuk wrote:
... (Maximum when tried summarily: Level 5 fine and/or 6 months
Maximum when tried on indictment: 5 years)

for shouting at someone? :?

jomukuk wrote:
If the person touched her without consent: That's assault.

Wow! How and when did that come about? I think that's really stretching the meaning of the word!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 17:55 
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Pratnership wrote:
Quote:
He spoke with a southern accent and had yellow or gold painted fingernails.


...!

That's...odd.


Beat me to it!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 18:07 
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If I walked slowly up to her and told her in a quiet voice that I would be observing her dustbins to check she had put all the items in the right bins and, if not, would report her to the Council, would this be threatening behaviour?

Goose and gander come to mind. I would, of course, claim that not recycling properly (to save the planet) was more anti-social than speeding. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 19:01 
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malcolmw wrote:
If I walked slowly up to her and told her in a quiet voice that I would be observing her dustbins to check she had put all the items in the right bins and, if not, would report her to the Council, would this be threatening behaviour?

All IMiffyO:

Yes, but only so far as yourself issuing a warning.
In this case your follow-up action isn't that of a penalty (it is merely the initiation of a separate process that can lead to a penalty), so in that sense the answer could also be no.

Observing the dustbins to such a degree could be considered intimidating behaviour :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 19:38 
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It is not stretching the word at all.

You should understand that the definition of assault does not mean that actual violence has to be effected.

Quote:
ii) An assault is committed when a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend the immediate infliction of unlawful force. (Archbold 19-166 and 19-172)


Note: Apprehend (anticipate with fear or unease)

If the assault causes any physical injury then it can be prosecuted as actual bodily harm.

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 20:28 
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jomukuk wrote:
You should understand that the definition of assault does not mean that actual violence has to be effected.

Quote:
ii) An assault is committed when a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend the immediate infliction of unlawful force. (Archbold 19-166 and 19-172)


Note: Apprehend (anticipate with fear or unease)

OK. So if for example, someone raised their fist to me to cause me to reasonably anticipate being punched, even if they can demonstrate they had absolutely no intention of laying a finger on me, can I consider myself as having been assaulted by them?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 15:11 
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The threat of violence existed by the act. If it caused apprehension with respect to the threat, then there exists a possible case of common assault.
Whether it would be prosecuted is another case, quite possibly you would have to take the prosecution yourself....
Just to show you how ridiculous the law is:

Quote:
In December 1990 in the UK, 16 gay men were given prison sentences of up to four and a half years or fined for engaging in consensual SM activity. This followed a police investigation called Operation Spanner prompted by the chance finding of a videotape of SM activities.
The convictions have now been upheld by both the Court of Appeal and the Law Lords in the UK and the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.
Despite what you may have read in the newspapers, for the most part, the men were convicted of the standard offence of assault occasioning actual bodily harm. Their defence, that they had all consented to the activities, was denied.
SM is not itself 'illegal'.
However, if the police discover you have engaged in SM activities which have caused injury, you and your partner could be prosecuted for assault


Quote:
Queen’s Bench Divisional Court
Published May 23, 2008
Wood v Director of Public Prosecutions
Before Lord Justice Latham and Mr Justice Underhill
Judgment May 14, 2008

Where a police officer restrained a person, but did not at that time intend or purport to arrest him, he was committing an assault, even if an arrest would have been justified.

The Queen’s Bench Divisional Court so held when allowing an appeal by way of case stated from the dismissal by Luton Crown Court (Judge Bevan, QC and justices) of the appeal by Fraser Wood against his conviction by Stevenage Justices for offences of assaulting police officers in the execution of their duty, and of threatening behaviour contrary to section 4 of the Public Order Act 1986.

The police officers had attended an incident acting on reports that a man called “Fraser”, who had a police record for violent behaviour but was unknown to the officers themselves, had behaved in a disruptive manner. When the defendant appeared one of the officers had taken hold of him by the arm and asked whether he was Fraser.

The second officer had taken hold of him when he denied that was his name, although at the time he was being addressed as “Fraser” by some of his companions. The defendant’s ensuing struggle with the officers had given rise to the charges and convictions.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 23:22 
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I do think this is a shameful act, and we do not know enough to identify the true intention and can only guess.
I find it strange that and elderly lady could recall so much information ! I wonder if the 'golden nails' were yellow staining from smoking and looked 'yellow' ? Who knows !
Seems somewhat baizarre and odd.
I also noticed the line about her 'educating' I see no educating going on here at all. Intimidation to control someone's specific speed is less than a posted sign does nothing to educate about driving to the conditions or to observe or control their car with greater skill, knowledge or ability. perhaps I should go and ask him just what he meant ... :) Perhaps he was mis-quoted or misrepresented.

Also precisely why (as others have clearly stated), we cannot have the public, do the Police's job ! A policeman would I am sure not have had this person come up and do the same to them ...

Hypothetical Questions :
Is this disgruntled person showing their, possible, distaste for camera operators, in any way a reflection of the growing unrest in the Country against the pointlessness of speed cameras?
By trying to take the pen were they trying to remove that person's ability to record something that they dis-approved of ?

On another note - I know of someone who was only cautioned when they tried to strangle someone ! :(

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 07:04 
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I was dragged from my car , kicked in the head suffering concussion and a broken tooth and the taxi driver who did it was only cautioned and sent out to continue picking up your kids from the night clubs. he might even do the school run!

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“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 07:27 
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Steve wrote:
even if they can demonstrate they had absolutely no intention of laying a finger on me, can I consider myself as having been assaulted by them?


Yup, it's what you thought as the target that counts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_assault

Assault is the threat, battery is the action.

Just shouting at somebody in an agressive way is an assault.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 09:35 
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Thanks Weepej and Jomukuk. This is my newly learned fact for the day :)

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