Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Fri Nov 14, 2025 20:33

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 23:28 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7355
Location: Highlands
http://www.sundayherald.com/oped/opinio ... 93.0.0.php
Susan Flockhart wrote:
Motoring crime is still not taboo. Thanks for nothing Tufty

IT'S JUST after rush hour and the streets are eerily quiet. Suddenly, something remarkable happens. A large car veers slowly across the road and hits a lamppost, while its driver sits slumped - apparently unconscious - over the wheel. A few bypassers stop and stare. But one man knows what to do and within seconds he has opened the car door and hauled the comatose motorist onto the pavement. "Help me get him up!" he gasps, as he hauls the heavy figure into a sitting position. Someone suggests calling 999. "Are you mad?" barks our hero. "He's obviously drunk. He could lose his licence ..."

In the end, common sense prevails. The emergency services are called and the attending officers don't seem interested in criminal investigations. Instead, they are muttering ominously about diabetic coma - the alcoholic odour being a possible effect of ketones accumulating in the bloodstream.

These events happened a long time ago and I am ashamed to admit to having been one of the witless bystanders who hesitated before running to the nearest phone box. I never found out what happened to the driver, but his chances can't have been improved by that misguided attempt to save his licence, rather than his life.

It would be nice to think that such woeful ignorance wouldn't be tolerated today. After three decades of government campaigns, drink driving has supposedly become socially unacceptable (despite research showing that a third of middle-aged drivers still admit to sometimes motoring while over the limit), and I doubt whether anyone disagrees that departing Livingston chairman Angelo Massone got what he deserved when he was fined £800 and banned from driving for a year after being found slumped over his steering wheel, reeking of booze.

What, though, are we to make of the sentencing of Ian Shennan, the van driver who killed father-of-three Paul Anderson and his four-year-old granddaughter? Convicted of dangerous driving at Edinburgh's High Court, Shennan had his licence removed for five years and was sentenced to 28 months imprisonment: a term Anderson's widow considers grossly inadequate.
We don’t care enough about our children to enforce rules that are designed to keep them safe. In fact, our whole approach to child road safety is flawed

The bereaved, of course, can be forgiven for thinking any punishment is too small. And for his part, Shennan appears deeply contrite about what his defence lawyer called "a tragic error of judgment". So what would be gained from subjecting him, and others like him, to the kind of sentences that are routinely doled out to people who kill with fists, knives or guns?

Shennan didn't mean to kill and it could be argued that in making a botch-up of overtaking on the A9, he was no more wicked than any motorist who takes a calculated risk; Shennan was just unlucky enough not to get away with it. It's the "there but for the grace of God" argument, and it's the reason why motoring offences are routinely downgraded in this country. Simply put - most people drive and most drivers, at least occasionally, break the speed limit, talk on their mobiles or take their eye off the road to change radio stations. So what are we going to do: bang them all up?

Having seen the pictures of a distraught Shennan leaving court, I haven't the heart to bay for a throw-away-the-keys-style blood-letting. But I do think he should have lost his licence for good. The 59-year-old has plainly rescinded the right to be let loose on the roads, and while it's unlikely he'd ever take a stupid risk again, a signal needs to be sent out that motoring offences are not trivial; that, in fact, careless driving is an efficient method of killing people.

Speed wasn't involved in the Shennan case, but it's by far the most common contributory factor in fatal road accidents. Yet according to an RAC survey, 75% of motorists think speed cameras have more to do with raising money than saving lives. All this proves, of course, is that 75% of motorists are monumentally arrogant.

Most people seem to think that getting caught breaking the speed limit is akin to being rumbled for chewing gum at the back of the class, despite the glaring evidence to the contrary: a child hit at 40mph has a 90% chance of dying compared with just 3% at 20mph. What part of that statistic do people not understand?

On the evidence of the pathetic conviction rate for speeding offences, we don't care enough about our children to enforce rules that are designed to keep them safe. In fact, our whole approach to child road safety is flawed. And in my opinion, the blame lies squarely with Tufty the Squirrel.

Launched in 1961, the Tufty Club was an early road safety initiative which encouraged children to follow the example of a cute but impossibly goody-goody talking rodent. Tufty always did his kerb drill - unlike bad Willy Weasel, who, if memory serves, got knocked down in every single story because he was forever careering off the pavement on his tricycle or dashing recklessly across the road to the ice cream van.

At the risk of being strung up by the red squirrel protection league, I'd say Tufty and his pals have a lot to answer for. There's nothing wrong with road safety education, of course, but the problem is that by placing the emphasis on teaching them how to stay out of harm's way, these campaigns signalled that responsibility for keeping children safe lay with the children themselves, rather than the adults who designed the streets and drove the cars.

Instead of devising ways of keeping down traffic speeds, we have demonised two generations of Willy Weasels for having the cheek to behave like children, while tolerating juvenile nonsense from the so-called motorists' lobby. Listen to this from anti-speed camera group Safe Speed on the government's drive to cut residential speed limits to 20mph: "If you make drivers go at a speed where they are not comfortable, they will be distracted and inattentive and that is what causes accidents."

As National Road Victim Month gets underway, Safe Speed and their ilk should shut the hell up and allow local communities to make their case for getting their neighbourhoods into a twenty's plenty zone.

Where these limits have been introduced, child fatalities have plummeted by around 70%. Once again: what part of that statistic does Safe Speed not understand?

Well it depends which statistics you look at !
Depends on whether you look at trends or specific years.
All road users have to be responsible. Tufty is great for telling kids how to be responsible, it was not lets have tufty run all road safety - it was aimed at kids, for kids, and it worked very well. During that period were many public info films too on many road safety advice, by taking care and keeping your eyes on the road as well as seat belts a little later. Many messages for all road users, not just one area nor to one road user type, as we see with cameras.€
We encourage all people to drive at the right speed appropriate to conditions so that you an stop in the distance that you see to be 'clear' in. That means outside a school I may as I have said on BBC Radio 5 live - I would if it was busy be perhaps doing 5mph, or slower if it required. At 3 am I may be passing at 30mph though. Being responsible is the right attitude, and the right driving good behaviour.
She has not understood Safe Speed's Kill Speed webpage, just to start with.
As for having our neighbours be the judges of Road Safety is extremely worrying - I hope they don't decide that my neighbour is to decide on health matters too ? Susan?
Safe Speed approves of proper enforcement and calls for the return of many more Traffic Cops.
Plymouth's original study showed that at 20mph KSI was 17% and at 30mph 13%.
Driving when going slower than is necessary become inattentive and frustrated, the two main causes of accidents.
It is the reduction of accidents that we need to see not an increase and we will I predict see a very sad increase in these zones.
Hopefully good understanding of Intelligent Road Safety will prevail and many will not reduce residential streets to 20mph zones.
The effect on the economy too will be significant esp if they do reduce London to 20mph!

On a personal note I have attended many road accidents and have never once failed to ensure upon arrival that the emergency services have been called or I have called them without hesitation.
Hauling someone from a vehicle is a really bad thing to do. If someone is driving with over the legal alcohol limit and have an accident their personal well being is the first priority, all else is second.
These Speed Cameras have divided the Police, public relationship, and I would put this squarely as the fault, when this person removed him from the vehicle with your reported intention of saving him from a police arrest !

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 07:16 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 18:50
Posts: 673
Quote:
Most people seem to think that getting caught breaking the speed limit is akin to being rumbled for chewing gum at the back of the class, despite the glaring evidence to the contrary: a child hit at 40mph has a 90% chance of dying compared with just 3% at 20mph. What part of that statistic do people not understand?

I do hate this scaremongering fallacy that is routinely used by "Speed Kill" champions. What has exceeding the speed limit got to do with mortality rates at accident speeds? Despite the fact that the quoted mortality rate is complete fiction, hit a child at any speed from 20 up and you are pretty much garuanteed to kill them.
Let me lay out why it is such a stupid analogy, if I drive at 40mph in a 40mph limit am I speeding? No, is a child less likely to die because I am not speeding? No! So what part of this do the speed kills brigade not understand?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 07:43 
Offline
Supporter
Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 13:45
Posts: 4042
Location: Near Buxton, Derbyshire
Odin wrote:
Let me lay out why it is such a stupid analogy, if I drive at 40mph in a 40mph limit am I speeding? No, is a child less likely to die because I am not speeding? No! So what part of this do the speed kills brigade not understand?


I think that the idea is to have the lower, more child friendly, speed limit on the roads where there is a high likelihood of children being around and only allowing faster limits where their presence is unlikely.

The article, like so many others, is only concerned with mitigating the effects of accidents rather than preventing them in the first place. In Susan's world children playing in the street would be regularly knocked over by slow moving vehicles, bouncing back up with a delighted grin on their face.

If we were really concerned about the safety of our children we would put an end to the "school run". Or, at least, ban stopping within a hundred meters of a school. The congestion caused by parents' cars is a serious hazard. Not to mention the health benefits of walking

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 08:14 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 18:50
Posts: 673
Quote:
If we were really concerned about the safety of our children we would put an end to the "school run". Or, at least, ban stopping within a hundred meters of a school. The congestion caused by parents' cars is a serious hazard. Not to mention the health benefits of walking

:clap:

Banning the school run would do more for road safety and child health than any policy we currently have. I too advocate banning the school run, and making a school bus scheme mandatory for children with longer journeys that are not practical for walking.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 08:23 
Offline
Supporter
Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 13:45
Posts: 4042
Location: Near Buxton, Derbyshire
Odin wrote:
Banning the school run would do more for road safety and child health than any policy we currently have. I too advocate banning the school run, and making a school bus scheme mandatory for children with longer journeys that are not practical for walking.


When my daughter was at primary school my wife used to lead a "walking bus" for about a mile. The encouraging thing was that several of her "passengers" could have gone to school by car but chose to walk. They really enjoyed the walk, the opportunity to talk to friends, pick hedgerow flowers, look through peoples windows.

Of course it would be totally impractical to actually ban the school run but you could forbid stopping within a certain distance of the school at the appropriate times. You wouldn't even need legislation for that - the Headmaster could make it a condition of enrolment

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 08:58 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 18:50
Posts: 673
Quote:
When my daughter was at primary school my wife used to lead a "walking bus" for about a mile. The encouraging thing was that several of her "passengers" could have gone to school by car but chose to walk. They really enjoyed the walk, the opportunity to talk to friends, pick hedgerow flowers, look through peoples windows.

And because the children are supervised they are learning about road safety by example ie. how to cross a road safely. Susan Flockhart appears to be against educating children in how to keep themselves safe.

Another point I've just read that made my blood boil:
Quote:
Speed wasn't involved in the Shennan case, but it's by far the most common contributory factor in fatal road accidents.

So why quote the Shennan case if it has nothing to do with the point she is trying to make?
Obviously speed is a contributory factor in most accidents, cars are vehicles, and by definition they move. It's almost as pointless as saying life was a contributory factor in 100% of deaths! It has been quoted on these forums before, possibly even by you DCB, if you mitigate against a secondary cause you only mitigate the severity of the outcome. If you mitigate a primary cause, you prevent the accident in the first place.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 09:17 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:11
Posts: 194
Location: Kent
What I can't understand is why the emphasis is always on a child "running out" into the road. This incident is very rare, but there are situations were it is a obvious hazard (like a mother walking with a pram and two small children in tow trying to cross the road) but everyone I have witnessed would adjust their speed appropiately for this ensuing situation. Also, coming from were I come from you will quickly see that there are more dangers in this country (nearly all countries for that matter; except maybe, I don't know...Monaco or somewhere?) than getting run over. We've got knive crime, gang violence, drug deals and in the cities gun crime. These sorts of people who write these articles blow everything out of proportion, it's like they have never been exposed to any other sort of danger.

_________________
Currently undergoing training with the I.A.M.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:46 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London
Susan Flockhart wrote:
All this proves, of course, is that 75% of motorists are monumentally arrogant.

I'm guessing the author has never driven, at least on motorways and DCs anyway. Does she have the same problem with driver speed on these roads, where it is already known that drivers most often exceed the speed limit (these roads happening to be the safest of all).

Susan Flockhart wrote:
Most people seem to think that getting caught breaking the speed limit is akin to being rumbled for chewing gum at the back of the class

In many cases, that is indeed the case; like I just said.....

That's one of the problems with those obsessed with speed, they always fail to differentiate boy racers and joyriders burning up residential streets, from commuters on commuting roads.

Susan Flockhart wrote:
Launched in 1961, the Tufty Club was an early road safety initiative which encouraged children to follow the example of a cute but impossibly goody-goody talking rodent.

Isn't this the best way, should we not all at least strive to be that good? (afterall we already expect this from drivers)

Susan Flockhart wrote:
we don't care enough about our children to enforce rules that are designed to keep them safe. In fact, our whole approach to child road safety is flawed.

I agree, we really don't care enough about our children, or at least the people who should care the most don't - by which I mean the 'legal guardians' – parents!
"A legal guardian is a person who has the legal authority (and the corresponding duty) to care for the personal and property interests of another person, called a ward. Usually, a person has the status of guardian because the ward is incapable of caring for his or her own interests due to infancy, incapacity, or disability. Most countries and states have laws that provide that the parents of a minor child are the legal guardians of that child, ..."
[Wiki]

Susan Flockhart wrote:
the problem is that by placing the emphasis on teaching them how to stay out of harm's way, these campaigns signalled that responsibility for keeping children safe lay with the children themselves, rather than the adults who designed the streets and drove the cars.

That’s a false dichotomy.
What about the adults (parents) who should be teaching them to cross, or supervising them where they suspect the cross cannot be done reliably? Should those people not bear any responsibility at all? (We already know that 85% of child pedestrian fatalities has child error as a contributory factor).

People who call for overly punitive measures against the negligent of one group (drivers) should also be calling for the same against those negligent from other responsible groups (parents); those who don’t accept this are irresponsible, biased and two-faced and are so at the risk of children.
(note: I’m not saying drivers shouldn’t be free of responsibility, so please don’t strawman me)

Susan Flockhart wrote:
Where these limits have been introduced, child fatalities have plummeted by around 70%. Once again: what part of that statistic does Safe Speed not understand?

It's nowhere near as clear-cut as that. Everyone must also consider the effects of Regression To The Mean (yes it can apply here too), 'bias on selection' where dropped limits are mixed with other urban improvements, like pedestrian crossings, junction relayout/resurfacing, or even those mini barriers opposite alleyway exits, as well as the effects of traffic displacement. These 3 effects together could easily give rise to all of that 70% reduction.

If we can get the legal guardians to ensure their offspring know how to use the road (or at least keep them supervised until they do), the child fatalities can plummet by around 100%. What part of that logic do these people not understand? Why to they feel the need to abdicate their fundamental responsibility onto other groups?

I would bet money this author will apply confirmation bias by not trying to come here to see what 'our' response is, let alone publishing it or responding to it.

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:18 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 19:08
Posts: 3434
It's interesting to note that the highest casualty figure for children is the 12-15 age group....hardly the type to be "playing" in the road or running out into the road after slipping mummy's hand are they?

To me, it shows an arrogance were they don't care about road safety. I've witnessed dozens of teenagers who just walk out in front of you with the the attitude and look in their eyes that says..." You'll stop for me...you have to!"

I'm sure the modern teaching of road safety where everyone puts the onus on drivers to, always "be in the wrong" is to blame, it certainly wasn't the Tufty Club, which gave me an appreciation of road safety that has kept me safe for nearly fifty years.

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:46 
Offline
Supporter
Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 13:45
Posts: 4042
Location: Near Buxton, Derbyshire
Quote:
To me, it shows an arrogance were they don't care about road safety. I've witnessed dozens of teenagers who just walk out in front of you with the the attitude and look in their eyes that says..." You'll stop for me...you have to!"


It isn't arrogance it is a normal part of growing up with which adults have to cope. But not by imposing very low speed limits

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:04 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 19:08
Posts: 3434
But it's something I've only experienced to this degree in the last 5- 10 years and never so much in my 35 years of driving before, so how do you explain this?

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:26 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7355
Location: Highlands
Less overall Road safety is being taught so that has consequences. More people too, so some areas are very overcrowded.

Bus lanes and pedestrian zones can contribute to a false sense of security when those areas no longer exist.
Driver behaviours too change, perhaps from frustration effects, at the bias controls imposed. Altered road user behaviours can have negative effects that compound into many (ongoing) areas.

Also :
'Speed' and 'speeding' are often confused and mis-represented.

Children school areas are often the safest places for children ! The dangers hazards are obvious and drivers' riders slow appropriately.

We want to prevent accidents so improvement to all potential parties is treating the root cause as is said above and as Safe Speed has been stating for a very long time indeed.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 14:49 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 19:08
Posts: 3434
People like Susan Flockhart should do 12 months driving for a living on all types of road,at all times of the day and night, then maybe she would understand road safety and be able to comment on it sensibly.

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 15:03 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 14:26
Posts: 4364
Location: Hampshire/Wiltshire Border
The Sunday Herald has a circulation (from their own ABC figures) of 43,518.

I shouldn't worry too much about their opinions.

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 19:25 
Offline
User

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 22:50
Posts: 3267
Odin wrote:
Banning the school run would do more for road safety and child health than any policy we currently have. I too advocate banning the school run, and making a school bus scheme mandatory for children with longer journeys that are not practical for walking.



Remember that traffic free experiment in Marlow? One of the main excuses from the mother and fathers for not allowing children walking/cycling to school was that the roads were perceived to be too dangerous.

Considering that they were the main part of traffic on them I found that ghoulishly ironic, it's almost like they know how dangerous the roads were because it was them driving.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 19:59 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 21:17
Posts: 3734
Location: Dorset/Somerset border
On this occasion I agree 100% with weepej. :o

The trouble is it's the game theory thing: if everyone gave up driving to school, it would be much safer for all, but for each individual it's safer by car.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 20:14 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 23:42
Posts: 3820
dcbwhaley :bow: :clap:


Odin :bow: :clap:


Tufty and the Green Cross Code Man DO have a lot to answer for Their contribution to road safety saved several lives as kids took their messages to heart.


Now I know Wildy and her rather precocious 10 year old son (the right nowty one :lol: whom we all love really :popcorn:) cringe over the Arrive Alive hedgehogs - but they still sing a catchy toon which most "normal" kids relate to.

But I guess the writer of the piece does lurk on here.


Perhaps she might like to view these links which do not exactly support her - but perhaps support my own opinion and hopefully the normal collective of intelligent fellow posters

:popcorn:


http://www.ecofriendlykids.co.uk/bike-safety.html



http://www.totallittlelearners.co.uk/parents_gaQuiz.php


http://www.safekids.co.uk/RoadSafetyChi ... rians.html

http://www.totallittlelearners.co.uk/parents.php


Now all of these sites would appear to contradict this journalist's opinion as regards responsibilty - and do please listen again to Jeremy Vine prog - cannot recall day - Tues/Wed?Thurs? as it was about hitting the toddler in the driveway and killing your own precious toddler yourself in a most tragic accdident at very low speeds.. :popcorn:


ALL of these links provide sound advice. I recommend to all out there. Useful read. Oh.. some may not agree with some of the advice. I happen to think it useful and informative - and in accordance with the law of the land and COMMON SENSE = Tufty = singalong cheerful hedgehogs =Green Cross Code Man


Also -available at clinics/GP surgeries/adjoining pharmacies - leaflets and KIDS HIGHWAY CODE which provides rather SOUND advice and fun and games. We helped compile ours. I am aware that Greenshed's SCP budget should provide a similar pamphlet. I have in my possession a DriveSafe version -from my GMP based brother and sister and the lovely Jazz and Julia (Ted's sisters) :lol: I also have a Lancs SCP version which is very similar in design - so I will assume Cumbria's SCP has a similar one :wink: which will have been produced under their "education budget". Hopefully Greenshed (also now positing as chunkychops) will confirm :lol: Muttery grumbly/chuntering whingy mode to get things off me chest! Guy must be right insecure if he has to make up another person to attack me and the Mad Cats. Blimey. We must be right then :lol:)


Walking bus/Cycloing bus ? Fine.

School bus also fine.

School Mums on a run ..:yikes:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 13:12 
Offline
User

Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:38
Posts: 105
Location: Sydney, Australia
Copy of my response in the "Safespeed in the Media" forum

"And those children who learned from the "Tufti" Club approach became today's safe drivers because it instilled into them crash avoidance rather than blind obedience."

_________________
The only thing that should be prohibited is prohibition.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 20:30 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 00:45
Posts: 1016
Location: Mighty Tamworth
This article really wound me up.
It sums up everything thing wrong with the current road safety agenda.
This sort of rubbish plays a very dangerous game with statistics, and journalists who have probably only have GSCEs in maths and science only compound the situation.
Just because they can identify that one number is bigger than the other, which is almost defiantly the limit of her mathematical ability she climbs on her high horse.

Quote:
“a child hit at 40mph has a 90% chance of dying compared with just 3% at 20mph. What part of that statistic do people not understand?”


Does she not understand the whole point of road safety should be tiring to reduce the number collisions? Does she not understand people crashing into people at any speed is not a good thing. Does she not see that for every 100 collisions at 20mph 3 children statistically speaking will die? (1000 goes to 30 10000 – 300 etc etc). Which I believe is scary, however Susan seems to believe this is a good thing! We need to aim to reduce collisions, not just accept them.

Then this.

Quote:
“I'd say Tufty and his pals have a lot to answer for. There's nothing wrong with road safety education, of course, but the problem is that by placing the emphasis on teaching them how to stay out of harm's way, these campaigns signalled that responsibility for keeping children safe lay with the children themselves, rather than the adults who designed the streets and drove the cars.”


!!!!! Surly the responsibility for road safety is the responsibility of every on using the road!!! Children need to know roads are dangerous and need to know how to stay out of harms way, drivers can’t see everything.


Sorry long post..

_________________
Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 20:44 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 19:08
Posts: 3434
Quote:
“I'd say Tufty and his pals have a lot to answer for. There's nothing wrong with road safety education, of course, but the problem is that by placing the emphasis on teaching them how to stay out of harm's way, these campaigns signalled that responsibility for keeping children safe lay with the children themselves, rather than the adults who designed the streets and drove the cars.”


Yes, lets ban everything that is unsafe for children. Like matches, water, gas, poisons, knives,forks, high things they could fall off, electricity, glass items....OR.... we could teach them they are dangerous and to leave them alone until they are old enough to use them properly.

I remember as a kid that apart from learning that roads were dangerous places...as well as open fires, matches, knives, electricity, poisons etc we also learnt at school that certain mushrooms, plants and snakes were dangerous....does this happen any more or are we supposed to eradicate these "dangerous "things for the sake of our children?

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.040s | 11 Queries | GZIP : Off ]