Safe Speed Forums

If you had any sense, you would not salt in the winter but leave the snow and ice, but salt in the wet season to encourage road decay...have you no knowledge of chemistry man?....

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I really like this idea of blocking private drives, often you find that people living in little hamlets, like to think that they are "holier than thou", whilst commiting the biggest sins. Maybe keeping your neighbours stuck inside their own drives will reduce risks on the local roads. I really hope so, keep up the good work. G

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Well all I can say is that I'm jolly glad the residents of my little village don't take the same view! Still, if it works for you and your neighbours, Gooddriversam, good luck to you! You could always go the whole hog and plough up the roads with your communal tractor I guess!

Ony thing is, do be careful that your actions don't cause a death or serious injury one day. It would be a real shame if a kid on a bike swerved to avoid one of your nice potholes and got run over by your communal tractor!

Nice to see you barricaded your road for peak times and blocked even yourselves from using it.

Sam's point 4 makes it clear ("Having to back up" )that the road in question is less than two cars wise. It also has no pavement or verges ("properties extend to the edge of the road"). AFAIAC there is no excuse for exceeding a 30mph speed limit on such a lane.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

You may be right but, by the 85th percentile rule, if a very high proportion of drivers are exceeding the limit (as stated in the OP) then the limit is probably wrong. A large population of drivers will always be "right" as they react correctly as a group to hazard density.

This may just be a case of high traffic volume at particular times being the aggravating factor rather than "speeding". Ascribing the problem to speed is a common thing to try to get something done but, reading the posts, the real problem is that they want the traffic not to use "their" lane. Would they be happy if the same volume of cars still came along but just more slowly? Probably not.

It seems that looking at the factors which cause the traffic to divert down this lane will be the most productive way forward.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Wow!

I was away from my desk for a couple of days and I am impressed by the number and quality of the responses my question generated. I have to admit that I was expecting some abuse for mentioning the 'c' word (Camera not the other one) but I am glad to see that there are some genuine answers which are aimed at improving the safety of our roads. Many thanks.

Because I've left it so long I can't possibly respond to every reply but I will say that we will be discussing your suggestions at the next street meeting (yes we have street meetings, usually VERY boring)

Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Concerned parent

Safespeedv2, thanks for your reply. I'll answer your queries one by one as best I can.

How can I tell? I have to admit that I did the sad middle aged man thing and timed myself driving at 20mph between given points on the road (outwith the speeding up and slowing down zones to either end). As this is a known distance and it is easy to check the drivers against these markers (coloured garage door and significant tree) I can figure out the speed. I'm not sad enough to sit out in the garden doing this endlessly but I do take notice when I am gardening.

Kids playing? The central garden on our street is very popular with the local children who use is for playing games, football etc. Most of the kids are under ten years old and I have seen the odd ball being kicked from the garden across the road. kids being kids, there have been a few occasions where they have run out to get the ball, luckily nothing has happened yet but that is not to say it won't.

Some cars look a lot faster? I could say the inverse was true also that some cars 'feel' a lot slower when you are in them. Cars these days are mostly noise free, smooth and very safe and I fear that this can give the driver a false sense of security. My original concern was not for the drivers (at 30mph most drivers will be unharmed after connecting with a pedestrian), it was the pedestrian that was the object of my questioning.

We have two cars, a fiesta and an octavia, Both are capable of the same speeds but boy can you feel the difference between them and it is a lot easier to 'notice' the speed you are going in the older fiesta.

Cheers

Hi concernedparent

As someone who was in a similar position to you years ago, living on a rat run, I am inclined to agree with you. I always remember one time in particular when I heard a car zooming down the road with a blood curdling thud and yelp as it hit a dog. (I couldn’t bring myself to go out and look).

In fact even now I live in a cul-de-sac where, if I could, I think I’d like to erect a speed camera myself because there’s one who regularly does a standing start from somewhere at the bottom. He must hit 40 to 45mph before he reaches the end.

But the important thing here is it’s one person! We tend to notice the things which go wrong more than those which goes right; the few spoil it for the majority. Most others are responsible drivers who go at a pace to suit the conditions and this is why I am fundamentally against speed cameras; they catch a hundred dolphins for every shark.

Ideally, I should like an officer to be there to catch the idiot, since I can’t stop him myself and punch his stupid face or smash his car up with my axe Also, it's not a good idea to confront people on your patch where they know where you live, for fear of reprisal.

So you have my sympathy and I hope it’s resolved soon, one way or another, before anyone gets hurt.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Personally, I thought the op was a wind up....

But if it is true and people really are that "petty", you still have to ask is the 30MPH Limit justified? Many "hamlets" are getting 30MPH limits now which are "justified" on the basis that they are "villages", when in fact they don't qualify for village status under Dept for Transport guidelines and as Malcolm rightly points out, they should not have 30MPH limits, especially if the mean speed (former 85%) does exceed 30MPH.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Maybe, maybe not But I’m glad this has been raised because how do you try and prevent an accident which you perceive as 'waiting to happen'?

I don’t have young children living with me but there are several cutie-sweetie-pies who play and cycle in the cul-de-sac. One knocked on my door the other week to give me a lucky stone, off someone’s drive I think - bless her (I try it with the Lottery this weekend )

If I were their parent I might be asking the council for speed bumps, cameras, police, SAS…

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

and a CRB check on the bloke next door who seems to be much too friendly with the children in the street

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

i grew up on a road very similar, fields and stone walls on the one side, houses on the other and just enough room for two vehicles to pass. I used to walk up or down it one way or another depending on which school I was at, for my whole school life.

Firstly, in those sort of rural environments, the houses tend to have large rear gardens for the kids to play safely away from the road and secondly, walking to school on roads with no footpaths does teach you, from an early age ,about road safety and how to be a good pedestrian.

Now the same road has been widened ,footpaths both sides, speed bumps and traffic flying up it every minute from 5AM til midnight.

Personally I think kids (should) learn more about road safety in those environments, than being cosseted on housing estates or living down a cul de sac.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

If I ever encountered Sam's road, I'd go down it with my hand on the horn.

I must admit that if it really exists, I envisage all the people there having the same colour hair and eyes and features and the dogs and cats to all have three legs....

However I suspect that one of the gardens might have a GREEN wooden building ,that people keep their lawnmowers and tools inside.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I was thinking that.
Who would have the time and money to spend doing that?
I suspect whoever wrote that wants people to believe it exists and to think "Wow let's do that in our town/village/road!". They probably work for a council.
Causing problems won't solve the original problem (again assuming it exists).

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Andrew.

LD-01 – Your point about junctions / changing lanes is irrelevant. All drivers should be capable of performing such manoeuvres safely and within the law AND be able to drive at a safe speed within the limit. Drivers have a duty to comply with all traffic laws – not just those they agree with.

Like you I care little for the “Slow Down / 30mph / Brake / Speed kills mantra”. Neither do I care for the whinging Cameras for Cash / Cameras don’t catch Drunks / Speed is not the only Cause of Accidents mantra. What I care about is the fact that before we dealt with speeding drivers in our village, life was being made miserable for many of our residents. Our actions were taken entirely because of the behaviour of law breaking motorists.

As for your ambulance point – our pool of drivers who slow the traffic (we have 23 volunteers) would of course make allowances if an ambulance needed to pass. It hasn’t happened in the 18 months our campaign has been running. But on balance, the risk that an ambulance may be delayed does not outweigh the risk posed by hundreds of speeding motorists.

graball – On the three lanes where we had the problem there are around a total of 120 houses. The lanes are barely wide enough for two vehicles to pass, no pavements, no street lights and 30mph repeaters – none are A or B routes. 30mph is often way over what is safe due to numerous blind bends, poor visibility and lack of space - SLOW is painted on the road in several places. Yet still drivers exceeded the limit or drove too fast and the screech of brakes, dead pets and wildlife and frightened pedestrians were frequent occurrences. And it was a clear majority of drivers breaking the limit.

Thank you for the useful tip regarding salt. You can be sure we will now use salt all year round every time it rains! If our lanes were returned to dirt tracks and therefore stopped all through traffic we would be even happier!

No one is “stuck inside their own drives”. Since we have slowed down the traffic residents can get out of their drives without fear of someone ploughing into them!

There is no question of anyone being “petty”. We were just completely fed up with people who refuse to obey the rules of the road and in doing so create a living hell. WE ARE NOT A HAMLET. THE VILLAGE DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY A or B roads, only minor routes with width restrictions that are unsuitable for heavy and fast traffic. A reduction to the limit of 20mph is desirable and our actions have more or less achieved this. You make your assertion that the limit needs increasing whilst totally ignoring the nature of the roads. Ultimately, it is not up to the driver to decide that a limit is set too low – drivers have an absolute duty to drive within the limit all the time.

As for your thoughts on child education - most of us in this rather well-off village are either retired or have sent our children to boarding school. Child road safety was never really a consideration in our case.

Mole – our action would never have started had drivers not been breaking the law. Maybe in all innocence you have no idea how speeding traffic impacts on everyday life. Before we took our action a village survey identified speeding as the crime most people were concerned about at 82% - over and above all the “real crimes” motorists regularly point to as what the police should be dealing with.

As for your kid on a bike senerio, there was always much more chance of a driver going too fast for the conditions killing a kid on a bike than any pot holes that have appeared since our action. There are now many more kids on bikes using our roads as parents are no longer scared to let their kids ride their bikes.

Mind Driver – all of us have accepted that some inconvenience will be necessary to maintain the reduction of rats and speeders. All of us accept this completely.

Dcbwhaley – spot on! The only way to describe the drivers who exceed the limit on our roads is “maniacs”. These are blind winding lanes and drivers have no idea what is out of their view.

malcolmw – a long time ago the NSL was in place. Now, it is 30mph. This, in many places, is still dangerously high. Let me describe our lanes again: frequent concealed entrances, no pavements, footpaths that come onto the lanes from open countryside, numerous places where cars travelling in opposite direction meet but do not have enough room to pass. And in answer to your question, we would have had no problem with traffic volume had the vehicles respected the limit and shown consideration (i.e. reduced speed) on meeting pedestrians, cyclists, horse riders, dog walkers, etc. However, the majority did not. The authorities did nothing, so we have found ourselves a solution that has worked. I’m not complaining here about speeders in our village – we have stopped them and sent the traffic back to the main routes. I am simply offering Concerned Parent the benefit of our experience. Drivers will never slow down voluntarily – they need to be forced and forcing them is not as difficult as you may imagine.

Johnnytheboy - So you would drive with your hand on your horn? And do you know what? Our lead vehicle would no doubt break down and completley block the road.

Ziltro - I can assure you that our scheme exists and we are aware of at least two other areas doing the same. Our policy is to be very subtle over a long period, so subtle that most drivers do not even notice what has happened. They just realise their short cut has started to take longer and eventually move on. As for the Council - they are the enemy for doing nothing, just as much as the blatent criminals who used to speed.

As for your remark "Causing problems won't solve the original problem". You are so wrong - our problems have been solved. Concerned Parent - forget the Council, they will just come up with excuses because the situation suits them, start your campaign by parking as many cars on your roads as possible. There is nothing like a snarl up to force drivers to take a different route. Then subtley make life difficult for the rats - they will soon go way.

interesting village,where is it?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Somewhere where loads of likeminded NIMBYs have time to club together and do wierd roadblocking stuff, i.e. on Sunday night TV or in someone with some serious passive aggression issues going on's head.

Seriously, if this was actually happening it would've made the news.

I can appreciate concernedparent’s concerns; I cannot say the same for Gooddriversam’s - he is all over the place, repeatedly convoluting the issue of speeding and rat-running.

In one case, the residents are acting purely out of safety (fair enough). The other is a case of selfish nimby residents who wish to block others from using roads that everyone is entitled to use ("reclaim your streets" indeed); any excessive speed (if true) obviously isn’t the underlying issue here, it is merely a diversion from the issue of rat-running; hence the given argument about camera enforcement is ultimately meaningless.

Why are you against trafpol GDS? They do more than just talk to marginal offenders, they can penalise and even arrest serious ones, and for any anti-social act/offence, even if within the limit.
Cameras will stop people using "drives like passing places" ..... oh wait ...

Can the moral scruples of those who move into an area, then complain about how bad it is, be called into question?

Another kicker is that you’re trying to spread those methods to neighbouring villages, and when that happens the rat-runners rat run right back onto your doorstep.

Instead of risking arrest by wantonly causing needless obstruction (yay trafpol, maybe that's why you don't like them?), why don’t you do something much more constructive, like find out why these people feel it is quicker to cut through slow back roads instead of using what should be the faster main routes?

Is it really wise to encourage horse riders to venture out into peak time traffic, especially when surrounded by the so-called "maniacs" on "blind bends"?
Something about really doesn’t ring true about this
TBH, I believe such descriptions of the general behaviour of traffic, the "vast majority", are usually portrayed by those who are simply anti-motorist; the dilution of ratrunners and dangerous drivers supports this suspicion.

There can’t be many people who work in your village GDS, blocking the area when you do will only serve to irritate those residents who do work – cut, nose, spite, face?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign