Safe Speed Forums

just had a notice of prosecution sent in the post clocking me at 72mph in a 50mph zone. not happy, firstly not happy with the plum doing 42mph holding up the "fast lane", when I finally got the chance to pass after being held up for 2 mile out of frustration I put my toe down and past a mobile camera van. my question is this:

if camereas are being used in the area are they required by law to have warning signs in place?
if not can I contest this prosecution?

the worst thing is though I've used this road for the last 17 year and within the last 2 it has been dropped from a 70mph zone to a 50mph because the local councillor likes to cross it to get to and from the pub. that aside 3 mile up the road there is an accident black spot where there has been at least 4 fatalaties but no calming measures have been used. whats that all about, easy money me thinks???

anyhoo, thanks for any help

Yep three things there, that sum up how bad driving has become, inthe UK.

Firstly, why have a dual carriageway and reduce it to 50MPH?

Secondly, why should local councillors decree what a safe speed is for a road, they often have little driving experience.

Thirdly, it's typical to find "joe bloggs" happily tootling along, holding everyone up, at 42 MPH, he was tootling down a road near me only today.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

No, they never were (although prior to April 07 they were needed to allow the SCPs to cost recover).
In short, you can't contest it based on the lack of warning.


Cameras are usually placed where they are most effective at generating income - where it is safe to make progress - in your case: not at the 'accident blackspot' but further up the road away from it!

It's worse than that. Read this (RTTM) to see how camera effectiveness has been massively spun such that people like your good self can be screwed by them.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Accident blackspots tend to be bends or dangerous junctions, places where the traffic is usually travelling below the speed limit anyway....no money to be made there but I believe they are allowed to site a camera within a mile of an accident blackspot....just in case the hazard moves, I suppose....

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

There is documentation that cameras should have a camera sign displayed within 1KM of the site being operated. Mobiles should have a sign on the side of the road prior to the site being used and the operator should make sure that the site is to all other requirements. Cameras should not be operated on bends. This is in the ACPO document for operation of speed detection equipment. The point is though, that they claim these are only guidelines and so they do not have to conform to such requirements. In other words "we can do as we like to generate finance". You have to abide by all other laws and regulations and guidelines. Read the thread on this site by G Luxford in the camera section (Northants consider scapping mobile cameras) and you will see how they are screwing the drivers and what he had to go through to prove he was not guilty and the depths to which Northants SCP and police went to in their endeavour to cover their very own underhanded operations with mobile cameras and just how inaccurate they are. I believe that one Northants Councillor also had 12 points and so also put pressure onto the Council for their removal. They make the decision in December.The report is mind blowing and may be of help. Good luck with whatever you do. OLLIE

The A610 at Nottingham has a strech of dual carriageway at 40MPH. What a b----y disgrace that is.

We had a nice NSL road in telford that used to be part of the "outer link road" or something like that. Nice wide two lane road with options to pass down the middle with a big island each end. Now we have a 40MPH limit, some of it dual carriageway with pinch points and stupid traffic lights that claimed their first accident within hours of being switched on.....progress...safer roads....improved traffic flow.....I'll let you be the judge of that....

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

To answer your question; no they do not and they never have needed police enforcement camera signs to make a speeding offence detected by the camera lawful. There is a requirement to have speed limit signs on a dual-carriageway so if a signing fault is your route to denying the conviction then the speed limit would be your only route.

I doubt your local councillor wanting to cross the road to get to the pub is the reason for a speed limit here. As yourself that question very carefully and see if you conclude that it makes sense. If it still does you should pursue that with your local council to have him dismissed for improper behaviour. I think your self examination would conclude approaching the council is not the solution.

With attitudes to driving and a description of the accident black spot close by that you have explained in your explanation of the circumstances the reason for the speed limit is obviously not the councillor but the attitudes of drivers that lead to collisions and casualties. Slowing them down somewhat is a crude but never the less practical measure.

None of which are lawful requirements

This is becoming common with the trend set in Swindon perhaps?

because the road isn't suitable for all drivers to use a higher limit as a guide.


councillors are dadvised by their expert staff what to do regarding speed limits. They may suggest limits be applied but I haven't see evidence on them being able to decree limits on their own. Perhaps they can but that would be a weak council to allow such. Why are councillors not experienced drivers? They represent a cross section of society so your generalization is not really helpful.


then wait for him to move over and pass otherwise catch a bus. It isn't a sensible reason to use excess speed.

There is still requirement for fixed cameras to have a camera symbol and a speed roundel within the drivers view of the camera (on the same side of the road as each other)

The road still needs adiquate sinage of the limit. The signs need to be at 450m max spacing and on both sides of the carriageway if i remember correctly and need to be in a good condition (red white black and reflective and 450mm for a 50 limit.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

You have an interesting definition of 'close by'!


How do you know that's the case for this road? To use your own words: "so your generalization is not really helpful."


Yes! Expert staff like SCP PR staff who wrongly advise them (be it routed through third parties) that their cameras are responsible for the fall of KSI earlier temporary accident hotspots (RTTM). Can you see a conflict of interest there?


It can be when overtaking (TED) especially if the limit is set needlessly low (assuming 'excess' means above the limit, as opposed to dangerous).



So far in this thread, mine are the only comments you haven't touched; I must have said something right

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Once again some VERY naive answers only to be expected from the WI to be honest

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Ooops! Don't get carried away; you have mixed up the words requirement and recommendation. There is no such requirement.

The spacing of speed limit signs is also a recommendation not a requirement although the signs being present is a requirement.

There has only been one member post that has given the answer to the OP's question. The rest is drivel.

I do hope that you are including yourself in the drivel dept!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

So how would someone like yourself, who claims to be a "road safety expert"..... , (although I would expect you to have no qualifications or experience to back that up) explain the need for a good dual carriageway which would have been designed to and capable of carrying traffic at 70MPH (in the days when cars were less safe, no doubt), now need to be reduced to 50MPH if there was less than the average A/100mkvms, apart from a knee jerk reaction from "road safety experts" like councillor Joe Bloggs ( who'se team of "expert staff" is probably his wife and old mrs Smith down the road, who'se cat got ran over the other week, so it must be dangerous) or an excuse to site a camera van and make lots of money?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

It seems you have no idea at all about which you comment; further comment from me on your opinion is hardly worthwhile.

ooops, lost for a sensible reply are we?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Which just goes to show what this site has said all along. Speed limit reduction aren't about saving lives but everything to do with making money and appeasing the "locals" to earn councillors votes.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.