Safe Speed Forums

Same bbc story:
Note the menu, right-hand top.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8376009.stm
No bias.
Note the crap about sea-level-rises.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

I am genuinely curious as to how one can measure a sea level "rise" of 3mm?

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

They use satellites and radar.
Specifically http://climate.nasa.gov/keyIndicators/index.cfm#SeaLevel
But you have to consider that their facts on arctic ice are wrong, and that the sea level is not as they say it is !
Basically: Climate change is being used to bring about social and economic change. This will not be change for the better (for us) but another massive subsidy to appease the conscience of western countries leaders. At our expense.
When (if ever) they get around to telling us (reluctantly)) why they did it....you will find the reason for the restrictive legislation they keep passing....I feel that the usa with its rather more liberal approach to the keeping and bearing of arms is going to be seeing a large reduction in the political animal.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

You have done your own research on that have you? Would you like to publsih your data for us?

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I don't need to.
Sea levels have been rising since the last ice age, well before homo-sapiens started generating the small (globally) amount that the species does (less than 5% of the total atmospheric content).
Sea levels are not even rising the same over the globe. Some areas/continents/countries have negative level rises while others are positive. Many "sea" level rises are due to the ground SINKING (and the sea levels lowering are due to the ground RISING).
I cannot help but to mention that sea levels were 120 metres lower than they are now during the past glacial periods !
And I cannot fail to drag this observation into the fray: Nobody has yet established whether the high[er] CO2 levels CAUSED warming, or are a RESULT of warming.

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends.shtml

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Untill you show some hard, verifiable data that contradicts the NASA data that can only be regarded as your opinion and makes no contribution to the debate.. Pointing out the platitude that ice extent has changed in the past does not make the NASA data for recent changes wrong.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I don't have to produce any data. I can make any statement I like. if they don't like it, they can sue.
Since the total global warming/cooling/who-knows scam is a complete scammers paradise.
Nasa is a largely political animal now and struggling to survive.
The next 10 years will see it shrink to something like 60-75% of its size now.
The shuttles are retiring soon, and nothing exists to replace them. No money has been allocated for anymore construction and little for research.
Even [US] satellites are being launched by other countries now.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

I'm not so sure about that logic.
We know the SCPs have given quantified claims regarding the effectiveness of speed cameras, but even when accounting for RTTM and long-term trends I can still state that the SCPs claims are still wrong by logically demonstrating there must be at least one other significant confounding factor (bias on selection) and showing how it must add to the illusion of effectiveness, yet I don't have any verifiable data for it.
Jomukuk has demonstrated a confounding factor (ground shift, which is very plausible given continental shift); however, it likely isn’t as one-directional as bias on selection. I tend to agree that this doesn’t prove the nasa facts to be wrong; 'possibly misleading' might be a better description.


However, I am highly suspicious about that nasa sea level data as presented.
I grant there likely won’t be much satellite data before 1993, but why does the data set for the coastal tide gauge records stop at 1991? Surely that data is still collected? This is critical considering there seems to be a rather abrupt change of rate-of-rise at that very time period.
Why have they seemingly ditched the common-sense principle of remaining with the consistent benchmark throughout, instead committing with the satellite data benchmark? Is it because it the latter gives alarmist results?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

That is a very good question and your doubts are rational and considered and ones I can understand and am prepared to ponder.

Whereas - - doesn't really offer much scope for reasoned debate and could easily be dismissed as the blethering of a mono-manic.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

No, no. Of course you can debate with people about their opinions in order to probe their thought process. Your stricture would preclude almost all political debate which is mostly opinion based.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Of course you can debate opinion in politics, philosophy or the arts where scientific truths are not are not involved. But if you choose to debate in the scientific arena then facts and data must take precedence over opinion. Someone who says that the data is wrong but refuses, or cannot, substantiate that statement is making no contribution to the scientific debate.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

You see this as a scientific debate. I see it as political or, as in this thread's title, quasi-religious and thus opinions are capable of being debated.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

There are political and philosophical debates to be had about what action should be taken. But jomouk with his statement "But you have to consider that their facts on arctic ice are wrong, and that the sea level is not as they say it is !" (them being NASA) is a bald attack on the scientific aspect. He is not saying that the interpretation or the models are wrong: he is saying that the raw data is wrong

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

As I said: I can say what I like....they do. With some 80 billion $.
Sea levels have been rising now for several centuries. They (NASA) say it is due to global warming (specifically: Man made global warming)....which it probably is....but the latest measurements show a fall in sea level (along with a fall in global temperatures).
http://sealevel.colorado.edu/
The ones taken by satellites.
Whether this will continue is a matter causing some concern....at NASA.
After all, when you use any excuse to scam some more cash (to waste on manned space flight) you tend to use anything you can to dredge the bottom of the bank account. Unfortunately, the Obama administration needs LOADS of hundreds of billions to build their national health service....so I think the NASA dream will [hopefully] turn sour.
They've also got to divert loads of more billions to build the national tax fraud scheme (sorry: Carbon Credits)
Along with our own government (we've only got 52.3 minutes to save the planet from an atmosphere hotter than a smelting plant).
Crapheads the lot of them.
Panic merchants...
As Lord Monkton says of them : "snake-oil salesmen"
They still have to explain why 5% of CO2 is causing 100% of "warming"
Maybe all will become clear later (about the time the ISS is de-orbited in 2016.....a loss of some US$150 billion) but given the fact that the debate has become intensely personalised and political, I doubt it.
I doubt that fact can ever be rescued now...or that science will ever be the same again.
In any case, there are to many variables and too many estimates with too many people ignoring what they don't like.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Indeed you can. Fortunately you can't force anyone to listen.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

My understanding of forums’ is that we are here, by choice, to air our views/opinions whether deemed right or wrong so that we can engage in a logical debate.

I have/am enjoying this thread. Please don’t spoil it for me/us. I'm listening/reading because I'm very interested. If it becomes ad-hominem then......

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I am not forcing anyone to listen or to reply.
This is [still: In part] a free country. No matter that the administration we have [elected and always-there-not-elected] is set on removing freedom based on a load of specious crap. And free speech goes along with that. Others, if they dislike the speech, can always use the law to try to get repentance !
Man-made global warming is such a scam...deliberately using scare tactics to impress urgency upon the mass population when no urgency exists. Refusing to look to recorded history to see that things such as CO2 were higher in the past than now, and we're still here.
Although you will note that Anthropogenic Global Warming has changed [rapidly] to Climate Change.
They now have to explain how reducing our output of CO2 by 50% (ie: only 2.5% of atmospheric CO2 will be attributable to homo-sapiens then) will magically allow the planet to proceed......along its path of increasing temperatures until the next glacial period....ie: carry on as it is doing and has been doing, for several thousand years (+)
It's like it always is, and always has been in such cases: FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL.
So far it has taken over 80 billion dollars to be able to prove NOTHING.
The world gets hotter. It has been since the last ice age. It will do so until the next approaches.
According to ALL their "models" the world should be still heating and the oceans washing against the base of Snowden. It isn't. They aren't. (yet)
There are however LOADS OF PEOPLE GETTING RICH ON THE BACK OF GLOBAL WARMING.
The global warming scam is being rapidly moved forwards because it will be a bit late to change back WHEN people realise they have been taken for fools.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Just look at this idiot Ed Begley losing the plot here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIl2gdDt ... r_embedded

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nigel_bytes

According to EBJ, the IPCC contributors who say there is an IPCC consensus are 'PHD scientists', but those 700 IPCC contributors who are living proof there is no IPCC consensus are merely 'weathermen'.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Personally, I prefer the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC)

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing