Safe Speed Forums

Because a driver who chooses to travel at a very low speed will, on most roads, impeded drivers who wish to travel more quickly.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

There is a difference between a driver that you want to pass and one that tries to stop you from passing. As there is in the case of someone who is driving quite slowly through choice or vehicle who cannot pull over to let a comet tail past because of lack of opportunity versus a driver who could not care less.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

The government's "Safer Roads Consultation managed to put a cost on both lives and time.

On the subject of a blanket reduction of S/C NSL from 60 TO 50 It said:

"Increase in journey time (business and private use): £4639.2m Average Annual Cost (excluding one-off)£463.9m Implementation costs (media campaign): £5.1m Total Cost (PV) £ 4644.3m

Casualty savings from reduced speeds: £4458m. Average Annual Benefit (excluding one-off) £ 449.5m. Decrease in greenhouse gas emissions and fuel consumption: £144.9m Total Benefit (PV) £ 4602.9m

NET BENEFIT (NPV Best estimate) £-41.4m"

Now whether or not you agree with those figures, the fact remains, they put some sort of value (doesn't explain how!) on time AND on lives AND they figured that one outweighed the other slightly!

Selfish and heartless, maybe, but ONLY if you believe that
(a) the increased stress and frustration that a lower limit will bring to a VAST number of people is less important (overall) than the (undoubtedly enormous) level of misery that the deaths and serious injuries would bring to a very few people and
(b) That the reduction in NSL would actually reduce KSIs.

I think/hope we are agreeing from different angles.

I have always questioned (b) because of: fatigue (sleepiness), frustration (leading to unpredictable behaviour) and displacement (pushing traffic to more dangerous roads).
(a) is tricky, but easy to swallow if (b) is unsupported, which thankfully is largely the case (especially on motorways).

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Absolutely agreeing!!!

It's just that I think you're being a bit hard on yourself playing down the significance of the "delay factor". That doesn't mean I agree with the government's figures either. I have no way of knowing how they put those "values" on either the KSIs or the delays (but I expect it's all been thoroughly researched and peer-reviewed )!

Naturally, if I'd had a freind or relative who was a KSI it would figure much more highly in my "weighting" of the situation and I don't want to devalue the absolute enormity of such an event to anyone who had suffered such a loss, but I think we both agree that blanket reductions of speed limits (well, at least until you get close to the pace at which a man can run!) is unlikely to help that!

Do try to keep up.

My original (unselectively quoted) statement was:



1. Choosing to drive slowly is not the same as seeking to impede people who wish to drive faster.

2. See the 2nd part of my sentence - I'm specifically stating that fast people should not expect slow people to speed up. Would it help if I increased the font size?

Haven't seen al posts on here , BUT -If I remember right ,another concept of the SS theme was that we should ALWAYS seek to drive such that we did not cause INCONVENIENCE to any other road user .That's a major theme in being a good ,courteous driver .
THINK OF HOW YOU CAN PROMOTE ROAD SAFETY BY CONSIDERATE DRIVING .
By doing so -we relieve stress on fellow road users and promote a feeling of comradship between road users ,such that we start to look out for our individual and community wellbeing , and that promotes SAFER DRIVING .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Hmm, well, I don't drive at more than 30 in 30 limits, this clearly causes a great deal of INCONVENIENCE to many people who sit up my arse wanting me to go faster.

Should I speed up for them?

If it really is "many" people then the 30mph limit is incorrectly set. (85th percentile ...)

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Should I speed up for them?

It's all about common sense, really, If you are driving at 30MPH and the conditions are right for that kind of speed you are doing nothing wrong and it's up to the individual if they want to overtake you and break the law, so long as you aren't deliberately preventing them overtaking, you are doing nothing wrong by driving at that speed.....BUT if you are driving at 45MPH in a NSL and conditions are good enough to do 60MPH and you see a large tailback of drivers in your rear mirror, you then have to ask yourself...."am I being considerate to others behind me?"

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I notice all the drivers around where I live have been going much slower than the speed limit lately weepej because the conditions have changed.

Have you noticed how the posted speed limit signs haven't changed to reflect this and yet the drivers have adjusted their driving to suit? (Apart from some fools).

Ah, conditions and circumstances have much to answer for...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Every driver should drive at a speed appropriate to the conditions (of which there are many to consider at any one time). I think you probably already know this! IF you feel that it is unsafe to exceed the speed that most other drivers on that stretch of road wish to travel at (either because you are driving a very slow vehicle or because you are not confident in your, or your car's capabilities) You should stop at every available opportunity to let other traffic past. If other traffic (by your reckoning) wants to exceed a particular speed limit, you should NEVER seek to impose your own driving style on another motorist. That's the job of the police. If you feel another motorist is driving dangerously, you should make a note of their registration number and call the police to report them (having found a safe place to stop and do so).

A most excellent point Tone! The same is happening round here. In fact, I would say that (oh, er, 85%? ) of drivers I have seen these last few days have been driving well BELOW the speed limit! That's what the government just can't (or won't!) get into their heads. THE SYSTEM WORKS! In exactly the same way that the chap who recently told us on another thread about all about the various obstructing tacticts he was employing in his village to slow down motorists, ALSO works! The vast majority (85%?) of drivers DO already drive at an appropriate speed for the conditions for the vast majority of the time! If the scamera partnerships had an ounce of decency or sense between them, they'd have a good look at their "takings" over this cold snap. My guess is that they will be CONSIDERABLY down. Now if KSIs don't driop by a similar amount, what does that say about the whole concept?

It's funny that you mention that



Because, despite the fact that people seem to be driving slower round by me too, (what a coincidence) I would expect the ksi's to go UP...the accident rate certainly has....so is it really speed (as in exceeding the posted limit) that kills?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

If you are behind someone doing 45 in an NSL and are close behind are you being considerate?

Here we have a Chicken and egg situation.

Why not drive at a safe distance, stay patient and overtake when you can?

It is possible for the collision rate to increase in slower traffic and at the same time the seriousness of the casualties and the KSI casualty count to decrease. This is what I would expect to happen in dense traffic situations. In roads that are sparsely populated I would expect collisions and casualties to decrease.
The answer to your final question is Yes! Without a doubt.

IMO:
If you believe you are already at the maximum legal speed then no. As others have said, the fault is not with you. However, it is not your place to make it dangerous for others to pass, more so as these lead drivers may not know their speedo is significantly overreading. You may even have misunderstood the speed limit for that area. Of course, on multi-lane carriageways you should keep left when appropriate/safe and leave others to it.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Some doubt: Displacement, fatigue (sleepiness)!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

If you are happy to keep posting what you think that's fine but it's not what happens and there is no evidence of either.