Safe Speed Forums

My daughter was accosted by too large German Shepherds this morning. They didn't hurt her - just knocked her over and destroyed the art project on which she had been working for several weeks. Why can this happen? If the dogs owner had attacked with a stick or a gun or his bare hands he would be languishing in a cell. but because he used a dog it doesn't interest the law. Why the f k do people feel the need to own non working dogs. AFAIAC people who own non working dogs are pathetic inadequate degenerates who care nothing about other people. If they need them for companionship perhaps they should do one of the courses about interacting with other people.
Edited - Moderator

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Thanks, I will let my 85 year old M-in-L know that she should be out clubbing rather than enjoying the companionship of her dog.

He is a working breed as it happens, however as she is not a cattle farmer he has to be content in keeping her from getting lonely and depressed. He is pretty good at letting her know the phone is ringing given she is a bit deaf and does not wear her hearing aids all of the time, is this sufficient justification or should he be put down?

Sorry to hear about your daughters experience, however not all dog owners are bad.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

My father at that age, managed to remain quite happy - PROBUS and many other social clubs - without needing to threaten his neighbours with an unpredictable hunting animal.


Oh yes. Sparing your M-i-L the effort of wearing a hearing aid is well worth terrorising the neighbourhood with a viscous animal



True - only about 99.9% of them. But 100% of dogs are.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I thinks thats only really a problem if you dont feed them right!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Sorry. But dogs are, by their nature, vicious killers. It is no joke to describe the domesticated dog as a wolf with the fear of man bred out of it.,

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Ahemm - what's a "VISCOUS" animal -or is that referring to the coupling
Last time we saw so much biased mouthing off was when a SCP member started off on kittens and babies .
Thing you fail to mention is that dogs are PACK animals - and the YOUNG and ELDERLY are given special status .( I've had a massive Rottie/GS cross play with six week old pups with more care than their mum gave them -and he was a Guard dog -he also had my son crawl over him ,and sat there wagging his tail).I've seen a GS security trained dog sit and let kids hold his bone ,whilst toddlers crawlwd over him .
What you forget is that an excited dog sees only what it wants to . Couldit be that just perhaps ,the dog did nothing wrong ,but DAD was failing in pedestrian COAST skills - don't forget that with kids - you need to develope the sameskills - and then don't blame the owner for kid and dog in same time frame - that's like saying we must ignore all other road users .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

There was a Horizon about the dogs relationship to man a few weeks ago, the research presented showed that selection was for passivity and an extension of puppy like behaviour. Of course they could be completely wrong and you right.

For someone that comes across as a rational and thoughtful person this is a remarkably extreme position, dare I say phobic?

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

I would suggest that DCB SEEK dog /kiddy therapy for him and child ASAP ,certainy before mini DCB ( or DCB) gets to the state of FEARING DOGS -

I've got a kid seeker , "must pat " Cairn Terrier - who seeks out kids - he absolutely adores them - andkids flock to his looks - but time and time and time again we find kids that can't go near dogs -they're absolutely terified - they've had a nasty and no one has tried to help.
I've been involved with dogs most of my life - and I've got the memoirsof my Dad (a full time posty ) ,who had dogs running out to greet him .Not just the family pet ,but Guard dogs / nasty dogs etc .His views were that most house dogs werent nasty - just doing what dogs do best - GUARD.They never sought him out for any more than a bit of afection -

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Dave,

I can appreciate you (and your daughter?) are mightily miffed for what happened (and for what could have been). However, you should understand the difference between an intended attack with a purpose crafted weapon, and not being in control of something that’s intended as an aid or companionship.
I should point out that there is already legislation prohibiting the breeding of certain dogs which are known for their aggression.


The obvious parallel here is driving. Sure some folks get it so very wrong, but does that mean all others should be barred from vehicle ownership if they cannot show they actually need it?
What about allowing adults to have children? Afterall, too many kids grow up to be attackers and killers (and own dogs).




Look at this vicious bastard!

Saying that , my owner doing something like this to me would cause me to give a killer stare!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Frankly, Steve, I am more concerned with the consequence than the intention. If some thing that is intended for companionship is in the habitof attacking people then I would prefer it to be kept out of the way of people.


That is a lousy parallel. Unattended motor cars don't attack pedestrians and cyclists. But if you do want to stick with the analogy: we insist that drivers are trained and tested, are capable of controlling their vehicle and are held to account for the damage they do with it. I would dearly like that principle to be extended to the ownership of dogs (and other pets)


I would have no trouble on restricting the right to have children to those who meet the criteria required by the adoption agencies (except the age limits - IMO older people make better parents)

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Dogs are, indeed, pack animals. They are also bred to do and enjoy specific work. So keeping a single dog and not allowing it to perform its work is to put the animal in a very unnatural environment so it isn't surprising that so many pet dogs are neurotic and unpredictable in their behaviour. Combine that with the fact that many dog owners allow the dog to become pack leader in the household.

What really concerns me is that, when it comes to dogs, the householder seems to freed from his normal duty of care towards visitors. And so many dog owners don't see anything wrong with their dog attacking people. But, as someone will point out, that is a problem with the owner not the dog. Which, as I said in my reply to Steve, is why I would put restrictions on dog ownership

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

So are Humans! Given the choice I would far rather meet a strange Dog in a dark ally than a strange Human!

(Consider what the most common animal bites treated by A&E are??)

Having said that....



My Mums theory is that you should not really have a "Domestic" dog that you cannot pick up!

For my own thought I have considererd the idea of a reintroduction of dog licensing with a two tier structure.

Class 1. For all dogs under 35Lbs. Freely available, no special conditions.

Class 2, For all Dogs over 35Lbs. Not freely available. Applicant must show ability to provide suitable care and enviroment for a larger animal. (IE No Mastifs in 1 bed flats etc)

Note, these are not "Breed" specific. It is all down to the weight of the individual animal. If the holder of a class 1 licence allows their animal to exceed 35Lbs they will be in breech of the licence terms!

In practace. Class 1 licence holders will be well advisde to chose dogs typically significantly smaller than 35lbs adult weight (and keep them from becoming obese)

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

C*nt owners will have c*nt dogs, the same way that c*nt parents will have c*nt kids, and unfortunately we have not yet made it illegal to be a c*nt (watch this space when I become PM!). Did the owner apologise and check your daughter was okay? No? You've discovered one of the ways to spot a c*nt!

I am rather more concerned about your blanket prejudice post the incident, that seems to have continued past the initial shock/indignance period. What would your standpoint be if your daughter had been bundled over accidentally by some running playing children? How about if she'd been clipped by a cyclist to the same effect? There is a theory that the holocaust was the result of Hitler being wronged by a single Jew at some point in his past, followed by a similar reaction to yours. Should we start building 'showers' for puppies?

On a lighter note, I seem to remember the film The Fly featuring a rather viscous dog!

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Is once a habit? Is an overly playful greet the same as 'attacking'?
Like I already said: there is already legislation prohibiting the breeding of certain dogs which are known for their habit of aggression.


I think it is a good one if you consider the notion of negligence; don't forget, this is following on from your clause of "need".
I suspect there are a few who don't need to drive, and they can present a risk to other road users - so should they be banned from vehicle ownership?
(this was the parallel).


This is a reasonable proposal for discussion; I'm open-minded in this respect. I have a problem with negligent owners, not the dogs themselves.


Oooh, controversial

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The Horizon program I mentioned earlier made the suggestion that dogs may have been key to the development of human society past the hunter gatherer stage. The domestication of dogs allowed the keeping of animals due to their herding and guarding uses.

At a stretch I might suggest that the ability of a human to relate to and utilise dogs is a survival characteristic so while we have selected and bred dogs to help us doing so has also had an effect on our selection. If this is the case it is hardly surprising that so many people wish to continue keeping dogs, we have selected ourselves for this.

I would tend to agree with the idea that keeping a dog should require a license and some demonstration of the understanding of what the responsibilities are and commitment to them. My reasons for this would be pretty much evenly split between the welfare of the dog and protection of other people.

As for licensing children, well it is their 'ooman rite' ain't it not? Of course I could argue it is my human right not have to reduce my standard of living to support their kids. Besides, eugenics is considered a dirty subject even when applied to dogs now so you are on very dodgy ground with that one.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

I remember some years ago reading a theory that the domestication of Humans by Dogs allowed us to sacrifice our sense of smell in order to develop complex speech.

(A long "Baboon" snout may be good for smell but bad for speech, since the dogs could do our smelling for us, we could afford to sacrifice it in favour of a flat face more appropriate for talking!)

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Ah. That explains why there are only 200,00 people bitten by dogs every year - because they are bred to be passive.


Horizon being completely wrong wouldn't be front page news in any science journal.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

The dogs were running loose and we don't know who the owner was. That is one of the reasons for my indignation.

Yes yes yes

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

[/quote] Yes yes yes[/quote]

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown