Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Thu Apr 23, 2026 00:14

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 09:55 
Offline
User

Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 09:08
Posts: 48
Location: Cambridge
Dear All,

I emailed this response:

" Dear xxxxx,

I am grateful I managed to stumble at last upon an opportunity to respond to a HA scheme concerning the motorway network. I am a high milage driver and higher rate taxpayer and am keen to prevent the waste of my own resources by HM government.

I am not sure that all of the positive attributes (smoother flow/shorter journeys etc) can be attributed as readily to these schemes as first claimed, however let us assume that some of them can be. Those linked to accident reduction however, (a significant cost benefit claim in the proposal) are in my view, are incorrect. Statistics can always be shown to support a view by careful case selection and ignoring things like national trends (population shift), regression to mean, or choosing short-time bases (or selected ones) for studies. In the managed motorway analysis I suspect we are seeing most of the 'standard' manipulation at work! The reason I am suspicious of the camera enforced speed limit aspects of the studies done is laid out below.

My other concern is that the huge sums spent on the speed enforcement aspect (up to 60% of the cost for HADEC/Gatso etc cameras) is not justified. The motorway is the safest road type and in the absence of cameras flows well under most traffic conditions.

Excessive enforcement during, in particular, quieter periods, will have negative impact on driver behaviour and in my observation the 'fear' of speed cameras results in closer vehicle spacing, poor lane discipline and a higher risk driving environment. I see this with my own eyes and no amount of statistical graphs will change what I see, sorry!

So I am opposed to the cameras and since they are seen as an essential part of the scheme for 'managed motorway' I am forced to be firmly against the proposal.

The motorway network requires additional capacity, and within existing capacity constraints, the use of advisory speed limits, and other information like 'slow traffic 600 yards' is helpful and the vast majority of drivers heed the warnings and are then prepared to slow as the visual situation requires it. This works well within a driving environment where drivers retain responsibility for thier actions. The 'speed camera' approach has already made A-routes more dangerous and stressful to use, as the dumbing down of driver decision making takes effect, please keep them AWAY from our otherwise excellent motorways.

I think the approach to speed enforcement by massive technology investment is being undertaken without full consideration to the fundamental changes in driving environment that is causes. When first introduced, the 'speed limit' was a useful tool for police OFFICERS to use, in order to focus on poor or dangerous behaviour, and the situation evolved whereby sensible driving was not punished, even when speed limits were to some extent violated. The speed limits set are, after-all, 'arbitary' at very best. No-one can decide on the actual safe maximum speed for every vehicle on every mile of the road, that is simply impossible. It has to be left to the driver, within sensible ranges, and so tolerance is essential to the psychology of this situation. Now, with massive state enforcement, drivers (me included) have changed their focus from road conditions to include a vast ammount of time making a 'numerical assessments', which bear little relationship to the risk they cause themselves or others in the VAST MAJORITY of driving circumstances.

Before cameras, the 70mph limit on motorways was disregarded by the majority, and where they are absent, it still is. I believe 85 percentile speeds are 85mph or so (not far off the continental 130kmh limit in fact). The Police tolerate this, and the situation of safe progress being understood, and unpunished, was/is established. Unsafe behaviour above 70mph was easy to prosecute (tail-gating etc), most people (we, the tax payers) are/were reasonably happy!

With massive camera enforcement you will inevitably refocus attention on the speed-limit itself, which we have seen is actually TOO LOW if rigidly applied, this, in turn will result in dangerous changes to driver behaviour (concentration shift, sudden braking etc).

I would like to suggest that the HA leave things alone, or accident risk will increase and more pressure for INCREASED speed limits will be brought to bear since the authorties are addicted to their control-freak technical toys. This will make enforcing driving standards (most of the dangerous behaviour has little to do with speed alone) more difficult for the police. Britains road were the once the very safest in Europe, thanks to tolerance from both sides, Police and public. We lost the lead in that area due in part, to this sort of technology-led tinkering. Please stop doing it before its too late.

Sincerely,

David xxxx"

_________________
Enjoying the twilight years of personal freedom in the UK (and my M3) :)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:41 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 14:47
Posts: 1659
Location: A Dark Desert Highway
8-) Nail, head etc


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:52 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 14:26
Posts: 4364
Location: Hampshire/Wiltshire Border
Yes, excellent. :)

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 19:24 
Offline
User

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 19:11
Posts: 172
Location: Southampton
Absolutly spot on.:clap: :clap:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 22:18 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 19:08
Posts: 3434
it's a good letter but he has more chance of writing to santa Claus and asking for a winning lottery ticket, than getting them to take any notice of him...;-)

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 22:28 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9268
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
graball wrote:
it's a good letter but he has more chance of writing to santa Claus and asking for a winning lottery ticket, than getting them to take any notice of him...;-)


Think for once graball has said what we all know - but this post is the answer - could someone post the queastion - or at least what the consltation is about .

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 20:22 
Offline
User

Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 09:08
Posts: 48
Location: Cambridge
Have a look here:

http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/1923.aspx

and


http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/133.aspx

And object (if you desire) here:

http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/25806.aspx

_________________
Enjoying the twilight years of personal freedom in the UK (and my M3) :)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 22:59 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9268
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
DavidMC wrote:


TA -in other words ,what they haven't proved to work on the M42 is suppossed to work elsewhere.Then -yesterday the M25/M42 , today parts of the M1 -tomorrow -the entire motorway network ,turning the safest roads in the UK into death traps .The only other more unsafe thing would be to allow cyclists to use the hard shoulder :shock:
Gets my objection -though perhaps some of the more informed and experienced posters might string some form of protest together for those interested to use ( either as individuals or if appropriate ,under the SS banner) .

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.135s | 12 Queries | GZIP : Off ]