Safe Speed Forums

But I find things like:

"Spectrum of a Xenon gas discharging lamp"


This explains all:


The spectra varies with power.
So yes they can have an IR skewed sprectrum, if they're used gently.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Why should they be used "gently" ?
The units [new devices near gatso] are obviously to do with some function of the unit. Since the units that I know of already HAVE a flash attachment AND the additional attachment it is dubious that they are flash units. Given that they have all-too-obvious diffusers on them.
Since the users have no personal financial reason to minimise power to save money...using the unit for anpr would not need a flash anyway, and a constantly-on unit would be much more use....indeed, there would be no use for it/them to be xenon, except that using xenon lamps would mean less waste/unwanted heat.
My ordinary mobile-phone-camera photographs (underexposed) using the built-in xenon flash via a wratten 87c filter...so there must be a measurable IR output....and a camera-phone flash is not exceptionally intense.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

And has anyone else tried monitoring the outpit from these addiditions with a IR sensitive device - my mobile on video mode coildn't see any IR- though ot could see the oitput from a TV remote - but it might not be sensitive enough .

( add - apologies fro spelling -think it's time i invested in new keyb - some letters are now a bit dodgy ) .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I spent an hour observing one with an image intensifier. Nothing. Not even any flashes from the truvelo.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

To achieve the IR spectrum you gave.


They surely must be flash units if they have a flash attachment. Of course they'll likely do more than flash (i.e. the "amber alert").


What could be significant about this?


Yes, an ANPR device doesn't need a powerful flash; IR LED arrays, or a bulb and filter, suffice (SPECS). I suspect using Xenon for constant ANPR would be a waste (I don't know what their lifetime would be when constantly used).


I don't doubt that, but could it illuminate a vehicle +50m away? (even without the IR rejection filter and with the same optical 'speed' (f ratio) as a gatso camera)
Remember, VRM recognition isn't the important characteristic for the 2nd photo.


I should point out that all of this is based on speculation; we don’t know if this new cam works with only IR.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Steve, my apologies, my comments on IR reception were based on my own experiences with devices utilising MCPs, not CCDs, so are largely irrelevant to this discussion. Feel free to disregard!

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

The cameras are not new, in many cases the cameras are the same and the extra unit is added-on.
I could spend hours watching one unit, but it would not help to decide what their function is other than speed detection, and it would be very risky anyway...don't forget that taking photographs of anything is now seen [by the police] as a criminal offence...let alone sitting watching a speed camera unit...
In any case..who cares ?
What difference is it going to make to anything ?
The time to halt the roll-out of anything has long gone, and the facts are that what we have now in terms of speed-detection and information gathering and storage is only going to become more advanced. The next stage of the vehicle itself gathering the information speed/distance/location/destination and reporting it directly is now becoming the focus of interest.
The use of gps for insurance purposes proved the functions can be used, and the next step/s will not be long in appearing.
Road pricing has not gone away, just moved-along under the radar (as it were).
First dedicated anpr units, then the use of existing cctv to gather the information.
The processing of data from video is a growth industry....and even the manufacturers of the system are proud of the fact that the advanced specs systems are capable of following individual vehicles from point to point, and store that information.
what hope ?

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Since I initiated this topic, I think I should be the one to solve it. I have submitted a FOI request to the Home Office asking a list of questions about this device. I intend to make 'em work hard and provide me with the info. When I get the answers I will post them on here. If everyone did this it would make the authorities think twice about putting up mysterious equipment without going public about what it's for.

Incidentally, the other day in Greater Manchester I saw a police Traffic car with the letters ANPR on the front passenger door. I have never noticed this before. Could this device be transmitting info to these patrol cars direct?

In Salisbury, I have seen an unmarked police car equipped with ANPR stationed at the side of a road. Further down the road was a group of police motorcyclists and patrol cars who were stoppping people identified as suspect in some way.

No fixed devices need be involved.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Seen devices fitted to roofs of local police vehicles, for some time and tried to ID them .Since looking for any ID on these additions to Gatso's on net ,have discovered that these units are the same as used on DVLA vans -ie -ANPR units .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I have made FOI requests on these - hope to hear back soon ...

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

As to the amount of resource tied into anpr.
The local law had an anpr purge near a motorway junction. Every way off that junction had anpr units stationed on it....all the data was carried through a small truck parked on a hilltop (a picnic site....so plenty of people noted it) which had a satellite antenna mounted on the roof. And no, it was not a camper, it had police inside it. When you consider the amount of police vehicles involved....each anpr vehicle had others attending it...I noted a dozen cars, vans and motorcycles...and that was just on one route with a few side roads....there are 4 other roads off that junction...
To be fair about it, they are not targeting lawful drivers...indeed, they cannot.
They also work with VOSA, DVLA, The Benefits Agency and HMRC.
So: if you're running-on-red....or working-and-claiming.....or working as a courier on ordinary insurance.....

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

So -is about illegal activity any more - or tax evasion enforcement . Insured /MOT/Road legal ,and safe ,but no tax -siezed .There's various programes on TV just now about the various agencies out looking for tax evadours - and come to think of it - my son got married two years ago to American lass - cost him about £500 for a Vusa , now two years on - leave to remain will cost them about £800 - and then ,there's the "British " test - a bit stupid since Bush and our illustrious leaders have formed a semi coalition .Actualy - my UK born kids tried it - one got 45% ,another 56% - the pass is 75% - so ,although born in the UK -they'd be chucked out if they took the test .Test Q- how many under xx yaers in the UK-perhaps we should ask Gordo AND deport him to Kirkaldy if he gets less than 50% .

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Claire ,in true diplomatic,and political fashion ,can I refer you to my photos on viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21832&start=0, post four ,and viewtopic.php?f=19&t=21059&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=0, post 13,
where the aerial is shown clearly ,and my reply from Warks SCP in that the aerial could be used to transmit data "to the police ".

Think I might once again ask WARKS SCP the same questions ,under FOI .

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Yep I am not the slightest bit surprised that they have been evasive - I am considering my response carefully.
I agree that the arial is blatantly obvious.
I think they need to reply more technically than say go talk to manufacture - I will do anyway too of course.
I can ask the WARKS SCP too of course - or send them to me and I'll copy it to them and then we can collate over a few - I have already asked this to Manchester ... I am tempted to select as many Partnerships contacts as possible and ask them all the same question. be interesting to see whether they all know as much as each other - or are prepared to admit a collection of variable facts !

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Based on the reply to my questions ,and on what has been put on here , and my pictures ,have sent a FOI request to Warks CC ,CC my County Councillor asking

"Can you please state the purpose of these additional units .
Can you please state the purpose of the aerial ,and state whether it is a receive /transmit or both way system aerial .Please also state whether this aerial transmits during any emanation of radar pulses from the Gatso unit and to where, either during emanation of Gatso radar or at any other time . ( I also sent them a photo of one additional unit ,showing aerial ,so they could not deny it ,and certainly my CC is technically aware to know that it's an RF device )

I did ask this question informally to get two replies -

"This is just an additional flash and not a new camera. It's equipment which
assists the camera."& "It probably transmits data to the police " ,WHEN asked about the aerial ."

So hornets been released into the CC honey pot - wonder if any SCP people will get stung -

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

So not full time ANPR then.

1 - Is it to aid illumination of non-retro-reflective plates?

OK

2 - Is it to aid illumination of the more distance graduation marks? (which I thought are semi-retro-reflective anyway)

What part of that question did they answer?
Why would an "aperture" need more light? Is the aperture smaller (bigger f-number) ?
Getting to the point: exactly how would the cameras not function properly without the slave flash? It can't be due to 1 or 3!

3 - Is it to aid illumination of other parts of the vehicle - to help determine the position of the vehicle relative to those graduation marks?

To this one GS said "yes"

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Steve - trying to remember the Latin Phrase about not letting the illigitimi get to you , as GS seems to be doing - IMHO-best way of revenge -( and it's best served cold) is to ignore him , he seems to survive on NEGATIVE energy .( Like as found on a sewerage farm)

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I have been looking at these devices quite closely.
They are marked "GATSO" on the rear of the additional unit.
The speed camera itself has a flash unit.
The extra unit may well be to illuminate the road so that the camera unit can be used to permanently view the area, since the internal flash unit will only "fire" on excess speed.
Don't forget, the digital speed cameras can also be used as static video cameras.

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing