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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 16:59 
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Kent News wrote:
Speed camera chiefs' anger at 'loophole' law firm
KENT NEWS: A law firm has apologised, but also defended, an advertising campaign that says its solicitors will use "legal loopholes" to get speeding motorists off the hook.
The controversial cartoon ad for My Brief based at Chatham Dockyard, has angered the Kent and Medway Safety Camera Partnership.
It has run in local newspapers in Kent and features a florist's lorry from a company called Ian O'Scent being flashed by a roadside speed camera, and the driver getting a summons.

A tip from the driver's wife to call My Brief leads to a solicitor telling the driver: "Don't worry ­ let's see if there are any legal loopholes, and if not, I'll try to get you the best possible outcome."
The final cartoon frame shows the delighted driver and the lawyer outside court with the speeder declaring: "Thanks! What an excellent result!"
But the ad is "irresponsible" said the organisation that runs the speed cameras in the county, adding that it is "outraged".

Partnership spokeswoman Katherine Barrett said: "By adopting a cartoon strip approach it trivialises the issue of speeding and road safety.
"By suggesting that legal loopholes can be exploited to help motorists who are genuinely guilty of speeding to 'get away with it' is also rather distasteful.
"This simplistic approach to road safety ignores the fact speeding is a major contributor to accidents and personal injuries and deaths on the roads of Kent and Medway.
"The advert also portrays the driver as an innocent party, when in fact he has broken the law by driving too fast."

Mr Barrett said some 30,000 speeding tickets were issued to motorists across Kent and Medway in 2009, but despite this drivers are slowing down.
The Partnership said it has seen a 63 per cent reduction in the number of people killed or seriously injured across its yellow fixed safety camera sites and safety camera van sites since they were introduced.
Ms Barrett added: "That's 324 casualties that have been prevented. This is excellent news, but irresponsible adverts like this one only serve to undermine our attempts to encourage motorists that excessive speed is a killer."
Jeremy Betts runs the company, which says on its website: "We can vigorously investigate your case and see if the police have complied with the letter of the law."
??He has 15 years' experience in criminal law, and told KOS Media: "We apologise if our advert has caused offence. It was not our intention in running the campaign to upset any members of the public.

"We realise the valuable work that the Kent and Medway Safety Camera Partnership undertake and do not in any way condone those motorists which clearly flout the law.
"The amount of convictions which are successful is a testament to the correct procedures which often take place.
"However, it is everybody's right to ensure the evidence the prosecution put forward is sufficient to secure a conviction.
"In adopting the cartoon it was made clear that we do not only seek to ensure the prosecution have undertaken the necessary procedures, but also if the motorist is guilty we will still act on their behalf.
"The majority of motorist who are caught speeding normally lead law-abiding lives and are often very concerned when they receive a summons from the police. We try and reassure such people and assist them to get through this difficult time.
"Unfortunately, there have been occasions, although I am pleased to say not in Kent, where speeding equipment has proved to be faulty and motorists have been wrongly flashed even though they had been travelling under the limit.
"We have had positive feedback from some readers regarding our cartoon and our campaign has been running since mid December, 2009.
"We are in the process of reviewing our marketing and will take in to account the views which some members of the public have expressed. We apologise for any offence caused."
POSTED: 17/04/2010 13:00:00

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 18:09 
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Loopholes are simply glitches in the law, or failings in the manner in which procedures are enacted.
If they are going to be so pernickity over applying the law relating to speeding, perhaps NOT matching it with a dangerous driving charge, often using automatic enforcement, then they should also obey EVERY SINGLE LETTER of the law themselves.

They set the tone and should stand by the same standards.

Just what is their problem - time and time again we are told that it is the law, and we cannot go bending it!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 19:23 
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Surely though it's "not about the money"...isn't that what they claim?

So the fact that the motorist has been caught, made aware that he was exceeding a limit and had to go to the trouble (and expense) of getting off using a law firm...isn't that the lesson learnt???

OR maybe it is about the money.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 19:30 
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There is no such thing as a "Loophole" in any statute law. What are often described as loopholes are simply failures by the draughtsmen who drew up the law. If we concede the concept of loopholes we are saying that we would like the law to be applied in a different way to which it is written.. And that would lead to anarchy

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 19:49 
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Loopholes.
AKA, cock-ups.
Like no visible signs stating the speed limit.
Like having signs but no procedure, thereby invalidating the limit.
Got an industrial estate near me....coming into it off the roundabout, there are no visible signs stating that it is a 30 limit. There is one sign, but not visible from the direction of travel...it is ONLY visible if you are going the wrong way around the roundabout. And it is on the wrong side of the road.
Is that a loophole ?
I guess so....no surprise that there was a speed van set-up there....so I phoned the highway authority and told them about the incorrect signs....no change yet...but I made sure that plenty of people know the speed limit is unenforceable.
The regulations say how a limit is to be established. Funny how drivers have to follow every minor regulation (like having both rear plate lights working) but police and local authorities do not ?
And then they call them "loopholes".
When they should call them disasters by overpaid inefficient councils.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 21:42 
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I'm with Ernest. The days of "taking it on the chin" when you got stopped by a proper copper and knew you'd been doing something dangerous are long gone. As far as I'm concerned, if they want to be so obsessively anal about "technical infringements", then they'd jolly well better get their own house "technically" in order too! If the authorities had half a brain between them, they'd realise that this whole "Mr. Loophole" thing has mushroomed since THEY started (a) enforcing speed limits so zealously and (b) started lowering speed limits right left and centre to such artificially low levels as to criminalise the majority of motorists.

Government by consent? Pah! Not here mate!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 23:29 
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Kent News = Here
Kent News wrote:
Partnership spokeswoman Katherine Barrett said: "By adopting a cartoon strip approach it trivialises the issue of speeding and road safety.
That sounds very much like she is trivialising the Animation Industry ... how utterly stupid. It is an incredible medium that is so flexible that it is used throughout society, business and governments.
Many government public info films were all animation or has she forgotten that ?
Kent News wrote:
"This simplistic approach to road safety ignores the fact speeding is a major contributor to accidents and personal injuries and deaths on the roads of Kent and Medway. "The advert also portrays the driver as an innocent party, when in fact he has broken the law by driving too fast."
Innocent until proven guilty is what totally forgotten ?
There are errors of equipment and mistakes made and then assurances to confirm certification is all in order of course.
Kent News wrote:
Mr Barrett said some 30,000 speeding tickets were issued to motorists across Kent and Medway in 2009, but despite this drivers are slowing down. The Partnership said it has seen a 63 per cent reduction in the number of people killed or seriously injured across its yellow fixed safety camera sites and safety camera van sites since they were introduced.
That will be the 63% then that all own a Sat Navs then ... :twisted:
And more seriously - since when has 'just' slowing down made a road safer? What about all those that use a different route, or have moved away, or changed job and travel another route and so on ...
Kent News wrote:
Ms Barrett added: "That's 324 casualties that have been prevented. This is excellent news, but irresponsible adverts like this one only serve to undermine our attempts to encourage motorists that excessive speed is a killer."
Oh that's a great FOI there then ... lets see how they can prove that ...
Kent News wrote:
"We have had positive feedback from some readers regarding our cartoon and our campaign has been running since mid December, 2009. "We are in the process of reviewing our marketing and will take in to account the views which some members of the public have expressed. We apologise for any offence caused."
Well it doesn't sound like they have to 'pull it', perhaps at most just slightly re-word it - still they do say there is no bad publicity.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 01:55 
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jomukuk wrote:
Loopholes.....
Got an industrial estate near me....coming into it off the roundabout, there are no visible signs stating that it is a 30 limit. There is one sign, but not visible from the direction of travel...it is ONLY visible if you are going the wrong way around the roundabout. And it is on the wrong side of the road. Is that a loophole ?
I guess so....no surprise that .....
The regulations say how a limit is to be established. Funny how drivers have to follow every minor regulation (like having both rear plate lights working) but police and local authorities do not ?...

There is a great idea in here :) I can see a double image cartoon of the streets - one side all the street / camera errors and the other with a car. lorry with their errors - one showing how illegal everything is for the car driver and he other showing the council / HA excuses with all their 'reasons' ... and how long it takes to 'repair' - a list of points and fine the authorities would receive if they were on the receiving end of their own fines and penalties .... Anyone fancy tackling all the words and lists ?
Our usual cartoonist Tim is really busy but another has surfaced and I hope to meet with him soon (when south) ... :)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 02:51 
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Quote:
The Partnership said it has seen a 63 per cent reduction in the number of people killed or seriously injured across its yellow fixed safety camera sites and safety camera van sites since they were introduced.
Ms Barrett added: "That's 324 casualties that have been prevented.

Another clear cut case of RTTM

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 18:14 
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Oh yes most definitely - I meant to mention ! :)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 22:30 
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Steve wrote:
Quote:
The Partnership said it has seen a 63 per cent reduction in the number of people killed or seriously injured across its yellow fixed safety camera sites and safety camera van sites since they were introduced.
Ms Barrett added: "That's 324 casualties that have been prevented.

Another clear cut case of RTTM


Steve - more we see percentages like this rolled out -more it's like some double glazing ad --"get discounts of 55% " - 63% /55% -as against WHAT .-or the compare the elephant .com car insurance ads -"we'll save you £200 " -( wish the would - I'd be asking for a refund) .

MEANINGLESS -unless stacked up against some real figures .

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