Safe Speed Forums

I have received the following comment as appeared in the motoring section "Honest John" Saturday Telegraph March 27th author "C H-- Winchester".


Interesting. The Bill of Rights is a real can of worms - much like the Lisbon treat - all very bad news for our County and our individual rights and that of the entire Justice System !

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

With a fixed penalty notice, accepting the notice is an admission of guilt. No one is obliged to do that. Your inalienable right is not lost as you are not prevented from waiting until you have been tried and found guilty by a court.

I don't think that the MPs are using the 1689 Bill of right to excuse their abuse of the expenses system. The are claiming parliamentary privilege which is a different matter. They are claiming, in effect, that their actions were not criminal embezzlements but rather misuse of an internal system. If that is the case (and IMO it isn't) they should be brought before the Committee on Standards and Privileges rather than the criminal courts.

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

So. Because it is considered an internal act of theft within the Commons system(s) they can claim immunity from being charged by any court. Banks and other entities have their own internal systems so shouldn't those who have been detected of internal crimes such as theft be immune to the justice system(s)?. Lets not have laws for some and laws for others,we have slipped into dire straights without those who run the Country being immune to their actions. Have you ever forgotten about your mortgage and what the repayments are and how many houses you own. If they contest the charges and are found guilty will they receive a higher penalty than if they had pleaded guilty and paid the fine as with an NIP (s)?

Many organisations choose to deal with internal crimes within the organisation rather than have their "dirty linen" exposed to public view. Especially when such publicity would reveal the insecurity of their systems - computer hacking is an obvious case.



Parliamentary privilege is essential to the functioning of a democracy. But it is not intended to protect crooks from the consequences of their actions and I will be very surprised if those MPs escape criminal action

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

They have been caught with their dirty hands in the till but still plead not guilty and have DONE NOTHING WRONG. They are all as bad as each other, and, why do we have to have around 360 lunatics to run the asylum when, 100 would be ample.
Expenses are the same in every situation and one has to provide PROOF of expenditure and that it was necessary at that time. If someone was detected in their employment fiddling large amounts then they would be prosecuted as with some recent cases in the media. I can't fiddle due to there being no trough to get my nose into. Lets have a flat line of justice for all and not just the hard working few. OLLIE

No they aren't. There are a few blatant criminals, a few lily white incorruptibles and the vast majority who milked the system for all it was worth under the guidance of the fees office who ultimately decide what is permissible..

[quote] If someone was detected in their employment fiddling large amounts then they would be prosecuted as with some recent cases in the media./quote]
But, sadly most of them were not fiddling. Their expenses were approved by the fees office; indeed the fees office encouraged them to make those outrageous claims. I doubt that there are many people who would fail to claim first class rail fares or business class air travel or 5 star hotels if their employer's finance office told them that they could do so and urged them to do so.

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Yes, I'd pretty much agree with DCB's analysis.

I couldn't understand why, when all this blew up via the Telegraph, people who had made claims within the rules existing at the time and approved by the authorities were villified. The real criminal fiddlers were those, for example, claiming for non-existent mortgages. It was these people who should have been exposed. Retrospectively bringing is a "morally correct" expenses regime was IMO daft. It's no use saying that "MPs should have known not to claim for X or Y."

We all work within rules. However, the same rules which apply to us lot should have been applied to them. They should have submitted receipts to support reasonable expenditure which should have been necessarily incurred in pursuit of their work as MPs.

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

When I worked for the CEGB we were given a quite generous per diem when travelling away from home. Very few of us spent the whole amount. I, quite openly, made a substantial profit by staying with a friend whilst on a week long course in London. The alternative to claiming the per diem was to meet all expenses out of ones own pocket. Was I being a "pig in a trough" by working within the rules?

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

The daily allowance arrangements are an extra statutory concession/dispensation agreed by HMRC with employers to avoid the administrative load where large numbers of staff stay away overnight. The default position is that all expenses paid to employees must be reasonable and incurred wholly and necessarily in performing the employee's duties. The overnight allowances are generally realistically in line with typical costs incurred by an "average" employee.

If MPs had had a fixed daily allowance then I would, at least, know the amount being paid to them.

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Which brings us to the point of,--Which thieves are we going to vote for this time?? Many broke the rules and were allowed to do so by those who were supposed to be running the Country for the past 12 years. Those that are being charged are trying to escape by any means posssible but the working man does not have the same resources or CONTACTS to do the same. Lets face it, we all have to buy our own meals and pay our own mortgages, cut our own grass etc it was like living in another World, on another planet, which is where they should all be. OLLIE

No. As, I have already explained, very few broke the rules and those that did so are in court. The rules may have been too lenient but - put your hand on your heart and tell me that you wouldn't take advantage of lax rules if you had the opportunity

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Iv'e never had any handout from this Government and never will. Where has honesty gone in this Country.? We have had one of the most corrupt Governments in the World today. There is no trust between anyone these days. We went inti Iraq for WMDs but now we're told we are there to bring about a democracy. Thats even when we don't have a democracy in this Country. Don't try telling me that we have. I have been to too many Council meetings and had too much dealings with both police and Council. There is no such thing in the UK. How and why do you think that there are so many cameras in the Country.? Did anyone vote for them? Did anyone request them? Who voted for speed humps? When 9,000 request their removal from one County and its rejected you call this a democracy?? Speed limit objections are mentioned at Council meetings but never any details of why and the points raised. No details are inquired into why the objection was submitted and no points raised as to why it was turned down. No my friend, get out and see just how your life and everyone else is controlled, it may open your eyes a little. Since having the time to observe how the Country is run it has certainly made me aware of some very nasty operations by certain entities. With my father having served 34 years on the force I was ONCE a very conformative person but since learning of just how some sections of those in control operate I have changed 100%.
Lets have a flat surface for all. OLLIE