Safe Speed Forums

Yesterday I saw Gatso flash in the daytime a line of cars queuing in road works. I wrote to my local camera partnership as follows;
"I am writing to report a defective safety camera. The camera is a Gatso model east facing in ............. At aprrox 10.45 am on 29/3/10 I was travelling in a westerly direction, passing this camera when it flashed. The traffic in the other direction was in a very slow moving queue, held up by , I think, by road works. As the traffic started to move off the camera flashed, presumeably incorrectly recording a speeding incident in excess of 30 mph. The incident was also witnessed by at least one other person. I would welcome your comments on this incident. "
It will be interesting to know whether they acknowledge the defect. The implication of the possibility of error are far reaching. Will the film show 10mph & the prosecutioin discarded.? We can then go on to ask how many false readings there are.etc. C

Hi hengist.

An operator will manually confirm the vehicle speed using the change of vehicle position between the two photographs and the time between them (assuming it is a gatso). So this error should be detected and the prosecution voided, in theory, but every now and again such errors aren't spotted.

This error could be due to the 'shutter effect', where low frequency vibrations from surfaces somehow leak into the detection circuitry and is deduced as a speed reading.

Please do let us know what response you get from the SCP.



What you bring up is only the tip of the iceberg. These claims surrounding these cameras are very flawed - see this (RTTM - yes this effect has been proven) for a good starting point.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The cameras are never defective.
Both the cameras and their operators go through rigorous inspection and training to ensure that they are "fit for purpose".
The highest possible standards are maintained throughout the process of installation, setting-up and operation to ensure that the motorist is not needlessly inconvenienced at any time.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

And it an offence under the Prevention of Everything Act to state that a camera is defective.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

hengist
There are, as already stated, many faults with the technical aspects of enforcement cameras.
I am not clear why you think that the camera will have recorded a speed in excess of 30mph ?
From your account you are facing the camera so it cannot proceed with a NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution). The still or barely moving cars will be seen to be well under the limit too.
I totally appreciate that the camera should not have flashed and it will be interesting to see what they state.
The stats often show the number of recorded incidents and the number of successful prosecutions - they can be very different!

Chaps do remember to use the 'wink' when you are joking - others may not realise !

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

May be worth keeping an eye on the case below:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/02/speeding_ticket_source_code/

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Another faulty camera. Claire gets a mention here.
http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/81 ... y__camera/
A MOTORIST risked a driving ban fighting against a speeding conviction – before proving there was a fault with the camera that clocked him.

DVD footage showed an error message at the same time 37-year-old Graham Lee was 'caught' doing 40mph on the North Orbital Road at Denham, where the speed limit is 30mph.

Mr Lee, who runs a chauffeur car service, had been due to appear before Wycombe Magistrates on April 22 – but the case was dropped by the Crown Prosecution Service the previous day due to a lack of evidence.

But Mr Lee said he was concerned other motorists who drove past the same camera may have been convicted of speeding despite not breaking the limit.

He said: “These cameras are being used nationwide and it can allow authorities to prosecute people with false evidence. It will not show an error message and the speed you were doing at the same time.

“You can take a still of the video which shows your car and your speed, but it doesn't show the camera error.

“The evidence wasn't admissible in court. I'm convinced this is going on elsewhere. Many thousands of people could have been in court in this way.”

Mr Lee viewed the DVD evidence at Banbury police station – 200 miles from his home in Cheshunt, Hertfordshire – in a bid to clear his name.

The father-of-two said: “The real breakthrough was seeing the DVD – I thought, 'Blimey, there's the answer, there's the reason why it's wrong'. I didn't think I was home and dry but that was the turning point.

“I'm a principled person. I knew it was right and I thought 'I have to continue with this'.”

Mr Lee, who has six penalty points on his licence, drove past the handheld camera at the junction with Denham Green Lane at around 11am on June 16 last year.

Having denied the speeding charge he was at risk of a ban, he said.

But he continued to deny the charge, despite not being able to afford having a solicitor represent him at court.

Speaking of the possible consequences of being convicted Mr Lee said: “Financially I could have been ruined, it could have been disastrous. Not everybody would be affected in such a bad way. A couple of points doesn't matter for some people, but for some they could get the sack and lose their livelihood.”

He added: “I'm not anti-speed cameras – they do reduce accidents. It's not about trying to fight the system.”

Claire Armstrong of campaign group Safe Speed said: “For a long time we've been stating that this equipment can be faulty. This clearly shows proof of that.

“We feel speed cameras continue to divide the police/public relationship, but at least when the court can rule in favour of an innocent motorist, justice is served.”

She added: “There's never a time to drive at an inappropriate speed and we must always drive to the conditions of the road.”

Lucy Chapman, spokesman for the Crown Prosecution Service, said: “The prosecution against Graham Lee was discontinued because on review of the evidence, there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction.

“This was because the DVD footage taken from the speed enforcement device showed an error message when recording the speed that Mr Lee was travelling at and so this evidence could not be relied on in court proceedings.”

Thames Valley Police were not available for comment at the time of going to press.

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nigel_bytes

link to article shows a truvelo

i have never seen an error message on the DVD systems, appears another case of the CPS folding because they are unable to answer a simple question

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now retired

The Truvelo pic was a red herring!
It was a free paper - you get what you pay for!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I Agree the usual error messages (E01/2/3) are not indicative of a fault with the gun, nor do these errors apply to any subsequent speed readings. How did the CPS not know that? Who was prosecuting? Was RSS present? Will the case go for a retrial?

However, I am surprised the DVD system doesn't show the error messages; does it really show not show the E01/2/3/7 etc?
Does the gun itself still show the messages?

Also, has the timeout message disappeared too? (I see some squares instead).

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

junior cps picked the case file up, quivered, why has not the camera operator been called,



why would RSS be required it is my understanding RSS are only required to give evidence after the defence provides expert witness testimony (minus the gatso)

doubt it, doubt if the junior cps will be involved as well

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now retired

Or was it because the equipment and /or operator was defective as has been shown to be in many other cases. Time for all operators to take early retirement. The sooner the better.OLLIE

i have known a few defective operators in my time never a defective camera



would you like to expand



well my old unit over the past year or so has taken on 3 new operators, every one a recently retired traffic officer, i somehow think they will be there for a while

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now retired

They appear in the data block below the officer/site number. They are indicated for 1.4 seconds so will often overlap the indication of the speed reading because the speed meter will continue to attempt to gather target speed if the trigger is continually depressed after an error or is released and pulled again. Having an error indication on the screen when a speed is on there is NOT a fault and an error indication 1, 2, 3 or 7 does not show a fault in the equipment; the discontinuance of the case for the reason reported is therefore flawed.

but we know E01 etc is the digital error message, instead of the analogue error1 etc,
1.4 secs can be altered, got me thinking now can the 100 / 1000 be used in continous mode

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now retired

Hi -GS -some more viewtopic.php?f=31&t=22346

Trouble is that when someone cries wolf a bit too often ............we all know the rest .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Not sure what you mean by that.
E01 on CONCEPT (digital/DVD) is the same as Error01 (VHS) on Lastec Local

It can but it is not normally set so it doesn't appear..

100 yes
1000 no.

Cam Op or Greenshed,

Do either of you know how to set the Ultralyte 100 to MPH mode (from kmh mode)?
The default: dEF > CLEAr function doesn't do it.

Any help would be appreciated.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

its factory set

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now retired

Thanks. I guess that's why the factory reset doesn't clear it

Do you know how to set it to mph?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign