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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 00:31 
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Carsite (Newspress) here
Carsite wrote:
UK’S SECOND-HAND AIRBAG MARKET DOUBLES IN A YEAR – STILL NO REGULATION AND A THREAT TO MOTORISTS

The number of second-hand airbags listed for sale online in the UK has more than doubled in the last 12 months, from around 3,000 in 2009 to just over 7,000 eBay auction listings in July 2010, according to research by used car e-retailer Carsite.co.uk.

Carsite is concerned that the economic downturn has encouraged increasing numbers of motorists to save money by replacing spent airbags with cheaper second-hand units bought from auction sites such as eBay. Whilst the used devices come at a lower cost than new manufacturer units, the risk of a defective airbag is many times greater.

There is also a fear that accident-repaired cars fitted with potentially in-operational used airbags are being sold on to unwitting buyers. In most cases the driver would be totally unaware of the problem until the bag failed to deploy.

More used Vauxhall airbags are available than any other vehicle make, accounting for around 10% of auction listings. Together with Ford, VW, BMW and Renault, the five manufacturers make up around 50% of the second-hand airbag market on eBay.

Motorists are even able to acquire prestige vehicle airbags. Carsite found one vendor offering a Ferrari 355 steering wheel airbag from a ‘low-mileage donor vehicle’ for £400. Significantly less than an authorised Ferrari service centre, which quoted £1620+VAT for a brand new replacement unit with an additional £150 in labour costs.

John Guess of Carsite.co.uk commented; ‘Not all used airbags will be defective; some will work in the event of a collision – it’s a total game of chance. However, even if the airbag is properly functioning, someone who is unqualified might not fit it correctly or even hurt themselves in the process.

This is a high risk marketplace that needs regulating. Without strict guidelines, the UK is letting people save money by gambling with their lives. Why is it illegal to trade used airbags in countries like Germany and not here?’#

In the majority of auction listings, the reasons why the airbag was removed from the original vehicle are not stated. Major retail site eBay, permits the sale of ‘new airbags’ but ‘deployed or rebuilt airbags’ are not allowed. However there are no restrictions on the sale of airbags removed from vehicles.[i]

Matt Gibson, Head of Customer & Aftersales at Honda UK commented; ‘Honda would never recommend buying second-hand airbag parts or complete units, as these components form a vital part of a car’s active safety system, which could be affected by incorrect fitment or parts failure. Our suggestion would always be to have such important areas of the car inspected and repaired by an authorised dealership, using manufacturer approved parts.’

In Germany, airbags are regulated as harmful explosives with only specially trained mechanics qualified to service airbag systems - no untrained persons are permitted to handle airbags. Under German Federal Law, used but intact airbags must be detonated under secure conditions and not passed on to third parties. Some manufacturers such as Mercedes-Benz call for the replacement of undeployed airbags after a certain period of time to ensure their reliability in an accident.

Amateur installation of used airbags can also be dangerous. Ron Waldock, Carsite’s independent RAC inspector commented; ‘Replacing an SRS unit isn’t a case of removing the old one and screwing another in place. Modern vehicle safety systems are much more complicated. On many models crash sensors will need to be tested and replaced or reset; the SRS computer and firing mechanisms must all be checked, alongside other recommended procedures. It’s a complex process requiring time and experience.’

The Department for Transport recommends never installing second-hand airbag components as they ‘may not function in accordance with the manufacturer’s original specification and therefore offer reduced levels of protection, or even present a danger to the vehicle occupant.’[ii] However, there are currently no laws to enforce this, or limit the sale, handling and maintenance of the devices.

The problem extends to those involved in the shipment of the used airbags, with UK postal workers potentially exposed to devices classified as UN Hazard Class 1 explosives. Some models of airbag can deploy and inflate at speeds of up to 160mph.

Despite the Royal Mail refusing to ship airbags through either its standard service or Parcelforce division[iii], this is being ignored by sellers who advertise standard delivery and package the units anonymously. Citylink and DHL agree to handle the devices but only when clearly labelled and couriered through their Dangerous Goods Department.

The Health & Safety Executive also provides strict guidelines on the safe storage of airbags such as in locked metal containers.[iv] Some units even require registration under the Explosives Act of 1875 for business and individuals wishing to keep them on the premises.

Whilst some used car retailers such as Carsite provide a full HPI history report with each of their vehicles, motorists buying privately are currently unable to ascertain if a car has been in an accident, what repairs were carried out or if the airbags were replaced in a manufacturer approved workshop.

ENDS

For further information, please contact:
Dom Vizor Rob Punshon
dom@performancepr.com.uk rob@performancepr.co.uk
Tel: 0208 541 3434 Tel: 0208 541 3434
Mob: 07810 203 066 Mob: 07702 448 462

[About Carsite.co.uk
Established in 2005, Carsite.co.uk is a pioneering and award-winning online retailer of ex-fleet cars selling directly from major brands at wholesale prices.
Carsite enables consumers to cherry pick from a huge selection of one owner cars with full service history at amazing online prices – saving up to 20% off CAP recommended retail prices.
Just £75 reserves their chosen car, refundable if for any reason they decide not to proceed. The RAC then inspect the customers reserved car exclusively for them. They can view the results for FREE alongside the RAC test drive video, 21+ photos, and HPI history report. Buyers can collect their car from one of Carsite's secure Handover Centres, or have it delivered at their convenience to their home or work - For FREE if within the M25.
No sales pressure, just award winning support. Thousands across the UK have already testified to this leading, stress free, positive car buying experience.
Carsite’s eBay shop, ‘ukautosite’ is the only ever winner of eBay Motors ‘Seller of the Year’ award since 2007. The award was focused upon the high levels of customer support provided.
[i]http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-vehicles.html
[ii]http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/airbags
[iii] http://www.postoffice.co.uk/portal/po/c ... d=19100263
[iv]http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg280.htm

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 00:51 
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As expected -as the quangos get depleted the "road safety experts are looking for new jibs -these airbags are as useful as a choc safety guard . :D

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 13:10 
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I wonder how they are being delivered ?
Posting explosives is illegal and very dangerous !

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 14:46 
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jomukuk wrote:
I wonder how they are being delivered ?!


Read the OP very carefully and you will find out.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 23:42 
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I'd seriously question the sanity of anyone who advocated transporting them in locked metal boxes!!! Confining any kind of explosive is a sure fire way to make the explosion (should it happen!) worse!

It's an interesting debate though. If some of the pattern airbags are as dodgy as some of the other pattern parts I see, I wouldn't fancy having one! On the other hand, a 10 year old MPV could have a dozen airbags and a couple of seat belt pretensioners that need replacing between 10 and 15 years old. Using genuine factory-fit items would write the car off.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 00:38 
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Mole wrote:
I'd seriously question the sanity of anyone who advocated transporting them in locked metal boxes!!! Confining any kind of explosive is a sure fire way to make the explosion (should it happen!) worse!



Just how powerful are the charges in an airbag .Mention it as detonators used as safety devices on railway are transported in plastic tins ,and whilst on vehicle they are carried in a steel detonator case ( painted red ) ( that's HSE requirements).The thickness of the case is minimal .Power of each ( and a minimum of six per person -so could be about 24 in case at any one time) is such that MINIMUM safety distance is 30 yards .

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 21:47 
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I don't think they're particularly powerful, but I'm not sure how one might quantify "powerful" in this context. If you sat one on the palm of your hand an detonated it, I think you'd probably burn your hand a bit but be otherwise OK. If you actually enclosed it in a biscuit tin and soldered the lid shut, I imagine you'd get quite a good bang. Put it this way, you can have four of them going off at once inside a car with closed windows and they don't blow the windows out!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:03 
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Perhaps this might be less of a problem if some moral presure was brought to bear on the manufacturoers not to make their customary %10-20,000 # mark up on these safety related items.:bunker:

(# Chats I have had with people i the automotive componant supply industry over the years suggest that "Mark ups" between the componant manufacturers factory gate and the box on the counter at your local OEM parts counter of %10,000 (factor of 100! :shock: ) are not uncommon! Now, I know that part of this is fully justifeid in processing and transport costs (I fully accept that the cost of taking 1000 units on a bulk pallet and putting them all into individual little boxes and distributed round the country is quite likly to cost more than the boxes contents) however I would be "Surprised" if these airbag modules cost much more than £10 a pop at the factory gate! I am sure that there is some room for manouver that still allows the manufacturers to make a modest profit without making the units so expensive that people feel compelled to use breaker parts to repair their cars safety systems! )

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 16:00 
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:clap:

I agree, I bought two medioum sized bolts from a toyota dealer a couple of months ago....£10.... manufacturers cost...a few pence

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 21:06 
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graball wrote:
:clap:

I agree, I bought two medioum sized bolts from a toyota dealer a couple of months ago....£10.... manufacturers cost...a few pence


Yep - compare three bowden cables for cycle/bike/car - one prize example is a throttle cable . Cycle gear/brake cable - peanuts .Bike cable a hefty bit more .And car equivalent -add lots more .My current DIY remote boot release uses a cycle cable - identical to the makers one for manual control - yet ,I'd bet that the makers one would set me back a lot more than the equivalent cycle one .

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 00:36 
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Don't all drop dead of shock here...

...but for once, I feel I must agree wth you all!

Not all manufacturers rip you off for all parts though. I bought a genuine speedo cable for my old Series II Landrover for £3.80 once! OK, that was a good 15 years ago now, but nevertheless good value, as it was a pretty long one! The vast majority though, are, hideously over-priced - which creates the demand for the cheaper "pattern" parts. The only thing I'd say about them though, is that mano of them are of inferior quality - and sometimes, in very subtle ways!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 07:27 
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Price aside, I am always impressed by how long motor manufacturers hold spares for discontinued models. My Mk2 Golf has been out of production for almost 20 years yet I can get parts for it. VAG has a lot of capital tied up in those spares, along with the warehousing and distribution costs so you have to concede them a pretty large mark up.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 09:14 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
Price aside, I am always impressed by how long motor manufacturers hold spares for discontinued models. My Mk2 Golf has been out of production for almost 20 years yet I can get parts for it. VAG has a lot of capital tied up in those spares, along with the warehousing and distribution costs so you have to concede them a pretty large mark up.


I doubt if anybody begrudges, for the most part!, the "Large mark ups on small items" for all the reasons you state . I do not object to paying £35 for a handbrake cable that "Cost" 50p. I object to the "Large mark ups on large items" Like the clutch master cylinder for a Toyota Yaris that Yota wanted £1300 for! (I kid you not!!) and probabally only "Cost" £20 (or even less) or, (back to the point) £500 for a replacement airbag that only "cost" £10.

They do it because they percieve that they are the only supplier of a part that you "Need" to get your car back on the road and and are exploiting it for all its worth. (Or they are hoping that if they make it painful enough you will be a good little consumer and send an otherwise perfectly satisfactory vehicle to the breakers and go out and buy a new one!)

In much tha same vein I tend to advise people not to use "Internet breakers" unless they really have no alternatives. "Internet breakers" will know that by the time you have started internet searches you are pretty desperate. If they have the part the price will be 60%-70% of the new price and (what ever they say) you will have no realistic comeback if the bit doesnt work!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:46 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
Price aside, I am always impressed by how long motor manufacturers hold spares for discontinued models. My Mk2 Golf has been out of production for almost 20 years yet I can get parts for it.

Are those OEM parts, or copies?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 13:00 
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Quote:
I bought a genuine speedo cable for my old Series II Landrover for £3.80 once!


Thats because series landrovers were typically owned by farmers and other "Practical" people who know what things should really cost and/or are practical enough to make their own replacements if nececarry.

If LR had tried to charge any more several thousand Yorkshire Farmers would have collectivly told LR to "EEF OH"

One of the problems these days is that many (if not most) owners have no real idea what, say, an ECU actually is, what it should cost to make or what a reasonable sale price might be so instead of burning the factories down in outrage they just grumble and cough up! (Or enough of them do anyway)


(This is of course the myth of the free market! Free markets can only work if people are fully knowledgable about what it is that they are buying so they can make true comparisons. In the face of massive cultural collective ignorance most peoples only method of comparrison is price and appearence. Lambs for the corperate slaughter!)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 13:29 
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A few weeks ago i got myself what i thought was a bargain, A Nissan Primera, Taxed and tested so no worries there.
Decided to service it, plugs, dizzy etc etc.
MIL lit up saturday, Faulty MAF sensor !
Makes a few calls and my jaw dropped :x £180 cheapest MAF (bosch)
Nissan wanted £400 :o
Lots of cheapies on Ebay but they are chineese £40 copies.
Not impressed :(

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 16:15 
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nigel_bytes wrote:
A few weeks ago i got myself what i thought was a bargain, A Nissan Primera, Taxed and tested so no worries there.
Decided to service it, plugs, dizzy etc etc.
MIL lit up saturday, Faulty MAF sensor !
Makes a few calls and my jaw dropped :x £180 cheapest MAF (bosch)
Nissan wanted £400 :o
Lots of cheapies on Ebay but they are chineese £40 copies.
Not impressed :(


At the risk of going O/T, Nigel -have you had a look on a Nissan forum -sometimes some factors on their offering decent discount.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 22:58 
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botach wrote:
nigel_bytes wrote:
A few weeks ago i got myself what i thought was a bargain, A Nissan Primera, Taxed and tested so no worries there.
Decided to service it, plugs, dizzy etc etc.
MIL lit up saturday, Faulty MAF sensor !
Makes a few calls and my jaw dropped :x £180 cheapest MAF (bosch)
Nissan wanted £400 :o
Lots of cheapies on Ebay but they are chineese £40 copies.
Not impressed :(


At the risk of going O/T, Nigel -have you had a look on a Nissan forum -sometimes some factors on their offering decent discount.


Maf sensors appear to be like gold dust, I tried nissan forums with no luck.
It was suggested exchanging the maf but no-one does this anymore.
A £180 for a sensor isn't what i expected :(

Have we reached the stage where manufacturers make cars so only they can service them ?
£40 for Nissan to hook up to a Computer :o
OBD 11 hardware- software isn't in my domain.
A piece of wire to read codes is fine for me but 180 quid is a little over the top for a sensor.
I just had a quote from scrappers 80 delivered (used) but not worth the risk.
My MR2 never had any problems and it was 20 years old.

Buy a modern car and prepare to be ripped off !

Sorry not a happy bunny :)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 23:30 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
Price aside, I am always impressed by how long motor manufacturers hold spares for discontinued models. .


You're 20 year old Golf has been out of production for years -but - the parts live on . Witness some of the older generation with a forgotten range of cars - anything BL/BMC in the 60's/70's . Any car had ( most probably ) the part you wanted (as long as it had a BL/BMC badge on it).
Why make a new part at extra cost ,when you can re use something off an old model - sadly dcb , you lack in modern production thinking . :wink: :roll:
Bit like our stance on road safety - we had the best system in the world - laws were fair -drivers respected the law /police - and police didn't over police ,just advise ( unless there was a need).

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 08:04 
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botach wrote:
dcbwhaley wrote:
Why make a new part at extra cost ,when you can re use something off an old model - sadly dcb , you lack in modern production thinking . :wink: :roll:
Bit like our stance on road safety - we had the best system in the world - laws were fair -drivers respected the law /police - and police didn't over police ,just advise ( unless there was a need).


Modern production thinking and modern policing have this in common. They are driven by the consumer (aka taxpayer) desire to have everything on the cheap. they want a better police presence without paying for it. They want free car spares yet still expect the purchase cost to be very low.

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