Safe Speed Forums

The Transport Committee is due to publish its report on road pricing before 3:30pm today. I believe it should appear on this page:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmtran.htm

I gave written evidence to the process and I'm hoping / expecting that my written evidence will also be published today.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Oh god, I started reading this, but after a big easter day tea, I started to fall asleep. Paul I'll leave it to you to pick the bones out ofthis one

PS the new emoticins are great

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

An interesting read. Unfortunately I think the government will pick the bits out it likes and ignore the rest. In places it's quite scathing about current policy and the governments plans for the near future.

The whole road pricing concept is utter utter rubbish. Road use is already rationed in congested places by the value of road user time. If it take too long to get there we don't travel.

This foolish sham of a report contains: "For example, business traffic generally has a higher value of time than personal traffic, and should therefore enjoy a greater benefit from the time saved, although the impact will vary depending on the business sector and purpose of journey."

The costs of congestion are very real indeed to business users, but they are already experienced. For example, congestion has already caused many businesses to relocate away from city centres to industrial estates and business parks with better road connections.

I wrote a memorandum and submitted it to the Transport Committee. In time I expect they will publish it - or maybe they won't since it clearly exposes the sham.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Common sense says it won't work.

Either you have to go somewhere at a certain time, in which case unless the cost is extremely punitive you pay.

The exception are shoppers, who have a choice where to go. They will just go elsewhere. And like you say Paul, thay already do based on congestion.

That's why sales are down far more than traffic in London's CC area.

I notice the report makes no mention of the victory for common sense in Edinburgh.

Unless we have to. And the vast bulk of peak-time traffic consists of people commuting to/from work - because they have to.



If it wasn't for personal traffic, businesses would have neither staff to operate, nor customers to sell their goods to.

Let's all shut up shop and go on the dole. That should keep them happy.

Cheers
Peter

No, people have a considerable amount of choice as to where they work and where they live. If the commuting time is unacceptable to them, they will choose to work or live elsewhere.

Every year, there is a large turnover of both jobs and housing. When choosing a new job or house, people will assess whether the commuting is acceptable to them. Change happens at the margins of decision making.

And don't forget what is acceptable to one person may not be to another.

In the long term, nobody has to live or work at a particular location.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

People will go where the work is - where the businesses operate. Some will choose to find work elsewhere, but others might take their place. Yet more change their commuting times so as not to be on the roads in the thick of it (I do this, but I work flexitime).
If businesses can no longer attract sufficient staff and/or customers then they can either downsize, relocate or shut down. But this is longer term than staff turnover - which in turn is longer term than the daily commute.
But, at any particular point in time, people are on the roads because they have to be.

Cheers
Peter

Well, a percentage are - and some are leaving later to beat the jams.

But road pricing doesn't purport to deal with immedaite demand - it purports to deal with strategic demand.

See my memorandum posted privately in the Clubhouse:
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1683

It's only available in the Clubhouse because the Transport Committee require me to keep it private until they publish it.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Yes, but over the course of a year, maybe 20% or so of them will have the opportunity to change that through moving job or moving house. It doesn't take long before the effect of those choices has a significant impact on the overall level of demand.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

And the price paid is 20% less business activity in the city centre.

Cheers
Peter

Possibly, although people may choose to locate nearer to their work - most city centres have seen large developments of residential flats in recent years.

On the other hand, people may be much more reluctant to take jobs in locations where congestion charging applies.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Yep. But it's worse yet - it's not just people - it's the less well paid.

This road pricing stuff is highly regressive - in some cases it'll get the poor off the roads leaving more space for the rich who (of course) will take full advantage...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Absolutely!

The London CC zone is a one-off, in that very few lower-paid workers commute there by car during its times of operation. Nowhere else in the UK is remotely like that. Most big cities and towns have loads of small factories, workshops and depots in their "inner ring" where loads of low-paid workers commute by car.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

This has nothing to do with people's choice to live where they work and everything to do with Government policies regarding "affordable" dwellings preferably being built at high density on brownfield sites. The developers have obliged.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Many of these developments (for example in Central Manchester) are of high-priced, upmarket apartments, whose buyers could easily choose to live in suburban locations if they preferred.

There is nothing wrong with people making a positive choice to live in a city centre if that suits their lifestyle.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed