Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Tue Feb 03, 2026 17:15

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:19 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 19:50
Posts: 3369
Location: Lost in the Wilderness
Daily Mail

Daily mail Claire Ellicott wrote:
'Speed guns don't work,' says police superintendent clocked driving at 79mph

By Claire Ellicott
Last updated at 10:10 AM on 20th August 2010

A senior policewoman clocked speeding is challenging the charge by claiming that the speed gun used by her own force was not accurate.

If she wins, it could open the floodgates to thousands of appeals from motorists across the country who have been caught using the devices.

Superintendent Helen Chamberlain, 43, was recorded driving at 79mph on a road with a 50mph limit.

She was given a verbal warning by the officer who stopped her. But a more senior officer disagreed with the decision and asked the Crown Prosecution Service to review the case.

Supt Chamberlain, from Harworth, Nottinghamshire, who works for Nottinghamshire police's city division, pleaded not guilty to a charge of speeding at Nottingham magistrates' court on Wednesday.

Ian Boddy, defending, said that questions over the accuracy of the speed gun test result would form the basis of her not guilty plea.

He added that he would also seek to challenge the process that led to the decision to overrule the initial warning and the quality of traffic signs on the road she was caught on.

But Brian Gunn, prosecuting, said the defence would mean that expert technical witnesses would have to be called.

He also raised questions over why the officer failed to challenge the caution she was given when she was initially caught, adding: 'I would want to, under cross examination, ask the defendant why she did not challenge this at the time.'

Seven witnesses are now expected to be called at Supt Chamberlain's trial in October. She was released on unconditional bail prior to the trial but has not been suspended from duty during the case, senior police sources confirmed last night.

Image
Test case: If Superintendent Chamberlain wins, it could open the floodgates to thousands of appeals from motorists who have been caught using speed guns (file picture)

Last year, a police officer who was caught driving at 98mph in a 50mph zone claimed the speed limit was not enforceable because the signs were not lit.

Sergeant Craig Nicholas Jones, an organised crime officer with North Wales Police, was taking a prisoner from Colwyn Bay to Caernarfon when he was stopped.

The 40-year-old was fined £500 by Llandudno magistrates, with £1,000 costs.

Another policeman caught speeding at 100mph last year told a court he had been late for work. Matthew Stott was allowed to keep his licence despite admitting the charge.

Nottinghamshire police and the Home Office both declined to comment on an ongoing case.

_________________
Useless laws weaken necessary laws.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:55 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 14:26
Posts: 4364
Location: Hampshire/Wiltshire Border
Quote:
If she wins, it could open the floodgates to thousands of appeals from motorists across the country...

RSS will, of course, be deployed to ensure she does not win. Mind you, 79mph in a 50mph limit is a big error. I note that the process adopted, the accuracy of the equipment and signage issues are all raised.
Quote:
Nottinghamshire police and the Home Office both declined to comment...

Yes, I bet they did.

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:17 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
Interesting case, but the only facts we have are press reports.
Why did the original officer opt for a caution given the speed alleged? Was it because he was uncertain of the reading he had obtained?
The report says that the defence has issues with the "accuracy of the speed gun test result" - a funny use of terminology - do they mean the calibration and NOT the speed reading?

Signage - was she a stranger to this road?

I await the results with interest!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:20 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 14:06
Posts: 3654
Location: Oxfordshire
As for the issue over why she did not challenge the verbal, why on earth would she!?

Someone is convinced you've done something wrong, be it true or not, that is their conviction. They have the power to make your life very difficult, but they just want to tell you off. Even if 100% certain of your innocence do you:

a) Shut up, hear them out, and drive off none the worse, or:
b) Argue the toss with them

Duh!

_________________
Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:29 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/news/Senior-city-police-officer-faces-speeding-trial/article-2550057-detail/article.html
You can add your comments below the article here!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:47 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:19
Posts: 1795
The session video will show categorically whether she was doing the speed the gun said won't it? If it doesn't then the session video has done its job but obviously if the guns are faulty then *all* session video needs to be checked before a NIP is issued to confirm that the speed the gun said is the same as that which is calculated on the video from other means.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 13:14 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 14:26
Posts: 4364
Location: Hampshire/Wiltshire Border
Ernest Marsh wrote:
Why did the original officer opt for a caution given the speed alleged? Was it because he was uncertain of the reading he had obtained?

Ernest, you know the reason. She was a police officer.

P.S. Did you think the Judge being Morris Cooper was funny. :)

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 16:08 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 17:20
Posts: 258
i have always wondered what would happen if one copper stopped another for speeding, would the copper in uniforms evidence out weigh the off duty copper, looking at the press report it appears to be a roadside stop rather than the scammers so there is no video evidence. Are roadside cautions for speeding the same as street caution's for cannabis.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 22:18 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 18:54
Posts: 4036
Location: Cumbria
That's really quite funny...! :clap:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 23:16 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9268
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Mole wrote:
That's really quite funny...! :clap:


I'd thought of it as(ON A PAR WITH) "when thieves fall out" :wink:

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 00:39 
Offline
User

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 04:58
Posts: 45
RSS Claim they have won every case that they backed is incorrect!

This guy has won a case backed by RSS where Steven.E.Callaghan was the Expert Witness for the prosecution.
What makes me laugh is Steven.E.Callaghan does not even have any credentials attached to his name(ie Dr) and tried to charge £2800.00 for his time especially after having mislead the defendent as to the equipment used.

Its obvious that there is a lot of knowledgeable people on this site how about one of you acting as a expert for this lady in Blue. :)


Last edited by Berwickst on Sat Aug 21, 2010 02:06, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 02:03 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7355
Location: Highlands
Certainly going to be a very interesting case and one to stay close to!

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 14:42 
Offline
User

Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 04:10
Posts: 3244
Quote:
But a more senior officer disagreed with the decision and asked the Crown Prosecution Service to review the case.

Bet the "more senior" officer popular now.

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 15:02 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7355
Location: Highlands
I wonder if the divide and conquer is backfiring ?
Or are 'the powers that be' just at war with everyone now !;)

Epperstone bypass between Epperstone and Oxton : here.

I assume the
Brian Gunn, prosecuting wrote:
... partly based on the accuracy of the equipment used to record the speed of Mrs Chamberlain's vehicle
means that the cops used this after 'prior opinion' ?

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 09:33 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
Occasionally, we have seen people that were let off by a policeman - as well as the ones seen on RoadPolice shows, so I would not say that she was let off simply because she was a policewoman. I am assuming that it was actually safe to travel at that speed on that road too.

I see that the Mail report is implying that the gun was not calibrated - my conjecture from the wording used regarding her defence, but when MoPs have been "let off" it is sometimes because there has been a procedural error which might see them "let off" in court anyway, and if this IS the case, then presumably the CPS (at the urgence of her senior officer) have reviewed the evidence and seen fit to go to court - so possibly she is having an example made of her BECAUSE she is a police officer, not the other way around.

It will all come down to what evidence is given in court, and how determined the CPS are to make the case stick - which is why the possibility of RSS Ltd getting involved will no doubt have a bearing.

Their task is to hugely inflate the prosecution costs to browbeat the defendants, and bamboozle the magistrate or judges with techno babble which very few question. However this officer will hopefully have a little more savvy regarding the equipment and more balls than to allow RSS propaganda monkeys pull the wool over the courts eyes!

Steven Callaghan seems to be the usual RSS operative called upon - and he was involved in golfer Colin Montgomery's case this year.
In it, the appeal judge found that the speed gun CLEARLY had not been used in accordance with the guidance - a fact which the CPS, two previous court hearings and Steve Callaghan had either not picked up on, or chosen to overlook!

Steve Callaghan on numerous occasions has stated very publicly that (in Cumbria) his highly trained operatives would never use the gun in such a fashion that it would produce false readings (a known flaw) and THAT is HIS greatest flaw - his infallible belief that HE is right and everybody else is wrong.
If this superintendent can show this in court, show them how Steve Callaghan either does not know everything, or lies and misrepresents himself on several occasions including in the Montgomery case (IN COURT), then she may well find herself cleared by the court - but I doubt very much that it will be because the gun is inaccurate - it isn't when used correctly - and I doubt it will see other motorists cases reviewed as a result as the Daily Mail implies.

If she wins, it will no doubt cost the tax payer a good deal of money, and I hope the senior officer who initiated the case is held responsible!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 09:38 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
Berwickst wrote:
RSS Claim they have won every case that they backed is incorrect!

This guy has won a case backed by RSS where Steven.E.Callaghan was the Expert Witness for the prosecution.
What makes me laugh is Steven.E.Callaghan does not even have any credentials attached to his name(ie Dr) and tried to charge £2800.00 for his time especially after having mislead the defendent as to the equipment used.

Its obvious that there is a lot of knowledgeable people on this site how about one of you acting as a expert for this lady in Blue. :)

See my post on PH here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=893326&i=40&mid=105161&nmt=Police%20Super%20caught%20%20speeding----Speed%20guns%20Dont%20work!!!
at 22.34 yesterday for further information on Steve Callaghan and see if you think he lies, or is merely misrepresented... by himself!!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 21:00 
Offline
Camera Partnership Staff
Camera Partnership Staff
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 19:48
Posts: 1995
http://www.policeoracle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15001

_________________
now retired


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:40 
Offline
User

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 04:58
Posts: 45
camera operator wrote:


Seems she has been found guilty already. Or at least by some of her colleges.
Many of the comments of Posters largely serving police offices is really worrying!.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 13:00 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
Seems like somebody else realises that cameras are not working (towards safer roads!)...

camera operator wrote:
i worked a camera for 4 yrs, i was unable to influence the drivers behaviour


Swindon realised this and did something about it before the rest pleaded that poverty was their reason to shut them down.

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 21:16 
Offline
Camera Partnership Staff
Camera Partnership Staff
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 19:48
Posts: 1995
Berwickst wrote:
camera operator wrote:


Seems she has been found guilty already. Or at least by some of her colleges.
Many of the comments of Posters largely serving police offices is really worrying!.


i never realised that internet forums were a court of law, where did the trolls go :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ernest Marsh wrote:
Seems like somebody else realises that cameras are not working (towards safer roads!)...

camera operator wrote:
i worked a camera for 4 yrs, i was unable to influence the drivers behaviour


Swindon realised this and did something about it before the rest pleaded that poverty was their reason to shut them down.


changed it so its easier to understand, i believe you have worked out the rest

_________________
now retired


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.056s | 12 Queries | GZIP : Off ]