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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 20:04 
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A number of countries seem to manage with a 20 limit. That gets over the mouthwash problem and, in effect, prohbits drinking and driving. A warning to anybody thinking of buying a personal breathtester - for the reading from ANY breathtester to be admissible in evidence it needs to be type approved. As far as I am aware none of the ones on sale to the public are approved.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 20:44 
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fisherman wrote:
A number of countries seem to manage with a 20 limit. That gets over the mouthwash problem and, in effect, prohbits drinking and driving.

And some countries seem to manage with cutting the hands off thieves - doesn't make it right, though. Countries with a 20 limit tend to be characterised by an extreme anti-alcohol stance in public policy and such a measure of course imposes a kind of fearful quasi-Prohibition on anyone with a driving licence. Which of course is the intention.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 19:09 
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See this poll.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 21:58 
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fisherman wrote:
A number of countries seem to manage with a 20 limit. That gets over the mouthwash problem and, in effect, prohbits drinking and driving. A warning to anybody thinking of buying a personal breathtester - for the reading from ANY breathtester to be admissible in evidence it needs to be type approved. As far as I am aware none of the ones on sale to the public are approved.



Do I smell the usual rat ,of those who would like to know they're ok ,being denied that right by law enforcement - look at speedos - can/could we get one certified as being accurate - NO -and why - .If the whole scenario about driving safely is about not being in excess of the speed limit ,why not have some scheme to let joe public know how accurate his speedo is . ( or is the whole safety thing tied down to legalities and cash) .

With drink driving - why not have machines in pubs - or personal breathalysers - for those who believe that being below a number makes you safe . Seems to me that there's a great similarity in both schemes . And I'm one that believes that no alcohol is the desired limit to drive .
Oh - but then ,perhaps it's then down to the other UK thing -the Elve and safety one . Pub tringy says you're under the limit - so off you go ,and ten minutes later you get shunted by widow twankey ,breathalysed and found over - you now have a case against the pub .

(Note to Mods - for those that want to nip down the pub to have a quick pint - that's their decision . I don't condone it , it's on their head , but it's their decision , but let's not have the usual witch hunt on the antis after me for expressing my opinion,as has happened in the past ) .

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 14:24 
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Botach,

Everyone is entitled to their opinion :) It's what you call freedom of speech. As for drinking and driving, I have seen people driving without alcohol in their blood who drive far worse than those who have had one or two. :)

I know this may sound off topic but, have you ever thought of how you could make a world and at the same time keep everyone happy, try it. :)

How far do you go with laws before you tell everyone to stay in bed because if they get out they may get killed? It is a very difficult decision to make. :)

I also don’t believe you would be the first to say I’ll give up my car if I had a disability that impaired my driving. How many people drive who cannot see where they are going, how many people drive who just haven’t got what it takes to drive. How many times do you let someone take their driving test before you say that’s enough? How old do you have to be before it's said that your judgment is impaired and is affecting your driving? :)

I now live in Thailand and if you were to see the standard of driving over here you wouldn’t complain about the standard of driving in the UK. You see things but, then you think to yourself if these people where to be governed by UK standards, they would not be able to survive. :)

People should think about what they are wishing for without thinking of the consequences it will cause to rest of the population. It doesn't matter how many laws are made people where given a brain that allows them to make a chose. The only way to make a perfect world would be to take away that gift of having a choice. Heaven sounds good, but think about it. :)

Our governments are the cause of our problems and until they are taken away the world will never be what it should be. :)

Big Tone has already said where a lot of our problems stem from. Over population is the biggest one but, will you ever hear any of our world politicians say it, no because to them you are just a commodity on their stock exchange, you make money for them, and you fight their wars for them. They couldn't give a shit for you, why should we give a shit for them. Can't you see that they are slowly and shorly taking away your gift of free choice. It says in the bible that Moses took his people out of bondage, do you want go back there? :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 15:25 
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I cannot see what is to be gained from reducing the limit.
We have a vast majority of people who obey the law and try to always remain competent and legal when using the road.
To those that disrespect the Law and believe they are competent how will you change their attitude from inside not from the threat of a fine or punishment.
This is a matter for physichology than rules and reguations.
It is about caring for yourself and your fellow man and wishing them no harm.
Failing to perceive that danger and altering the behaviour for the greater good, is the key to resolving the issue long term.
People are different so it may take various approaches for different 'types' of people too.

Governments and those in authority have a responsibility to society to behave appropriately and try and resolve social problems with the best solutions. The tendency recently has been to find one solution to solve the greatest problem so that the perception is that a lot has been resolved. This is when the targets can become the whole purpose, and the original problem remains as the focus incorrectly shifted.
I am sure they have to make many difficult decisions and many of those decisions and their resons for them can never be fully explained, so we trust and hope the rules that govern are approximately 'correct' and for the greater good.
I agree that the numerical exercise and obsessiveness with a digit relating to safety is completely wrong when standing alone.
I think a lot more needs to be done to fully and comprehensively understand how 'being drunk' 'works'and how and why individuals are different.
Basic rules that can clearly cover all imparement from being in full control of a vehicle, as being wrong and not best practice help to tell road users what is and is not expected of them, very clearly. The more the rules and regs are made specific the more chances there are of confusion and 'grey' areas.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 16:11 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
It is about caring for yourself and your fellow man and wishing them no harm.
Failing to perceive that danger and altering the behaviour for the greater good, is the key to resolving the issue long term.
People are different so it may take various approaches for different 'types' of people too.

Governments and those in authority have a responsibility to society to behave appropriately and try and resolve social problems with the best solutions.


Sums it up. Love thy neighbor, it's all gone, and our governments are the biggest culprits. Reminds me of the song by Abba, Money Money Money!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 18:25 
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The ABD's response to the North Review is well worth reading:

http://www.abd.org.uk/resources/documents/north_review.htm

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 13:06 
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Interesting article in the Indy
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/mary-ann-sieghart/mary-ann-sieghart-saving-lives-cant-be-the-only-criterion-2047114.html

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 19:31 
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They should leave the DD limit alone.

I can't see a reduction making any useful contribution to safely, but I can see a lot of drivers being penalised for no good reason if they were to reduce the limit.

Best wishes all,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 13:11 
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The Daily Mail reports today that Philip Hammond is apparently "minded" to reject the call in the North Review to reduce the UK drink-driving limit to 50mg.

"A source close to Mr Hammond said: 'The minister is very sceptical indeed about this idea. The majority of people who cause fatal car accidents are so far over the limit that lowering it won't make any difference.'"

Link

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 13:46 
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PeterE wrote:
The Daily Mail reports today that Philip Hammond is apparently "minded" to reject the call in the North Review to reduce the UK drink-driving limit to 50mg.

"A source close to Mr Hammond said: 'The minister is very sceptical indeed about this idea. The majority of people who cause fatal car accidents are so far over the limit that lowering it won't make any difference.'"

Link


not like speed then....


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 13:54 
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Mole wrote:
not like speed then....

I suspect Philip Hammond and Mike Penning would privately agree - but it takes time to change the culture of the DfT.

Will we see something of a moratorium on further "speed limit reviews", I wonder :scratchchin:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 18:24 
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Quote:
"A source close to Mr Hammond said: 'The minister is very sceptical indeed about this idea. The majority of people who cause fatal car accidents are so far over the limit that lowering it won't make any difference.'"

Link


Some common sense thinking from a government at last.... :clap:

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 21:44 
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Mole wrote:
PeterE wrote:
The Daily Mail reports today that Philip Hammond is apparently "minded" to reject the call in the North Review to reduce the UK drink-driving limit to 50mg.

"A source close to Mr Hammond said: 'The minister is very sceptical indeed about this idea. The majority of people who cause fatal car accidents are so far over the limit that lowering it won't make any difference.'"

Link


not like speed then....


I'd suggest that more than a few missed my link between having testers in pubs,giving a safe LIMIT( AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME) ,and the current stance on speed limits .

Both policing to numbers .


As for going out to the pub and driving home - for me that's the drink drive equivalent of Peter E's bit on speeding . Then I got a wake up all or two , got involved in an industry where blokes have a drink( or 15) ,off duty ,but are expected to be on duty with almost zero blood alcohol . Get called out after one pint - you don't go .
So , I can't preach ,but my attitude is I don't now drive after one sip -but , THAT'S MY OPINION. If you decide that after one/two pints you're fit to drive - that's you're opinion, and I'll not preach -that's your opinion .
And -Dixie - I spent about four years in Zimbabwe - where in towns will almost try to undertake you ( and that's literally ,by going underneath) , they'll pass on either side ,irrespective of your speed . So yes,I've seen horrendous standards of driving - both in town and out in the country - where when I came on an accident one night ,I had a female flash a mammary gland in my face ,to try and persuade me to take her to hospital ,to get her right arm muscle sewn back on - and yes -the whole lot had more alcohol in their system than blood .
And then when you get a lot into the back of you're vehicle, and the ambulance takes the rest , and you get to hospital , and the ambulance driver says "WHO'S PAYING FOR THE AMBULANCE" - they had medical cover - something we don't think of in UK.And the accident happened on a slight bend - so who knows what happened .

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Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 14:06 
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botach wrote:
Mole wrote:
PeterE wrote:
The Daily Mail reports today that Philip Hammond is apparently "minded" to reject the call in the North Review to reduce the UK drink-driving limit to 50mg.

"A source close to Mr Hammond said: 'The minister is very sceptical indeed about this idea. The majority of people who cause fatal car accidents are so far over the limit that lowering it won't make any difference.'"

Link


not like speed then....


I'd suggest that more than a few missed my link between having testers in pubs,giving a safe LIMIT( AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME) ,and the current stance on speed limits .

Both policing to numbers .


As for going out to the pub and driving home - for me that's the drink drive equivalent of Peter E's bit on speeding . Then I got a wake up all or two , got involved in an industry where blokes have a drink( or 15) ,off duty ,but are expected to be on duty with almost zero blood alcohol . Get called out after one pint - you don't go .
So , I can't preach ,but my attitude is I don't now drive after one sip -but , THAT'S MY OPINION. If you decide that after one/two pints you're fit to drive - that's you're opinion, and I'll not preach -that's your opinion .
And -Dixie - I spent about four years in Zimbabwe - where in towns will almost try to undertake you ( and that's literally ,by going underneath) , they'll pass on either side ,irrespective of your speed . So yes,I've seen horrendous standards of driving - both in town and out in the country - where when I came on an accident one night ,I had a female flash a mammary gland in my face ,to try and persuade me to take her to hospital ,to get her right arm muscle sewn back on - and yes -the whole lot had more alcohol in their system than blood .
And then when you get a lot into the back of you're vehicle, and the ambulance takes the rest , and you get to hospital , and the ambulance driver says "WHO'S PAYING FOR THE AMBULANCE" - they had medical cover - something we don't think of in UK.And the accident happened on a slight bend - so who knows what happened .


Sorry I haven't answered you but, I've been busy elsewhere. I'll try and put something together for you with reference the UK and also Thailand. Just to add if you think Zimbabwe (I have lived in South Africa) is bad, then try living in Thailand. I'd also imagine other third world countries are just as bad.

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