Safe Speed Forums

Just been fined for doing 36 mph in a 30 area. North Wales police - who else?

Why does nobody seem to be making an issue of the fact that NWP will NOT install flashing 30mph warning signs - the ones that are activated by vehicles travelling over the speed limit, and are used by most other police forces to give drivers a chance to check their speed before entering the relevent area.

PROOF IF PROOF WERE NEEDED THAT NWP ARE ONLY AFTER YOUR MONEY!!!

Over the years I have been extremely aware of the fascist attitude of NWP with regards to speeding. But as everyone knows, it only takes 2 seconds of lapse in concentration and OOPS! your speedometer has upped an extra 5mph. I have found the "flashing sign" method to be very effective where employed, but of course those police forces don't take nearly as much revenue as NWP - do they?

Aside from the council spending thousands upon thousands on putting up these activated signs there is an alternative to knowing how fast you are going, your speedometer.

As a matter of interest, just what proportion of a drivers time do you think it is acceptable to spend traveling at speed while not looking where one is going?

(You may express the figure as a percentage of total time or as a distance out of every mile )

Just asking

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Dunno 'bout you but when I check my speedo I'm still aware of what's in front of me, you don't look down and it and stare at it in isolation, and what's more you'd only check it when you've got nothing else to do.

And how is having to look at these flashing signs any different?

Is that in the same way that you can see around blind bends?


Do you mean when there's "nothing to look at ahead"


- The position of speedo is further away (angular) than the sign/road ahead.
- The speedo is at a completely different distance to the road ahead (and the sign), so unlike when looking at the sign, two sets of refocusing is needed.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

To be honest i dislike these VAS devices in almost all the guises i've come across them.

I have a pretty good idea of my speed based on engine noise and gear, road/wind noise and of course occasional speedo checks, I also have eyes enough in my head to see a change in speed limit (two big lolipops on either side of the road what more do you want? flashing ones??.. oh i see ) and enough driving experience to know when to anticipate a change in speed limit or the need to check for street lighting and/or speed limit repeaters.

And yes, they cost money and are often broken and/or inaccurate.

If people's driving skills are poor enough to need a flashing sign how did they managed to pass a test (unless there were convenient flashing signs at every limit change along the test route)!
Do they also need a flashing sign to tell them the limit has increased ?.... no, thought not

I’m not sure what to think about them. I read that they are in common use on the Continent, used in place of speed cameras, but I think there are enough distractions as there are without something flashing at me and diverting my eyes from where they should be i.e. on the road.

I've seen ones lately which flash red if you are over the limit and a green smiley face if you are under, but I think there’s something desperately sad about turning a very serious thing into a game of sorts. As with speed cameras, I find myself wondering if any actual research had gone into them before they were implemented or whether someone just came up with it as an ostensibly ‘good idea’?

Is it too much to ask that I don’t want to be distracted while driving? (I think scantily clad sexy women walking along pavements in the summer should be banned too )

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

The signs around here tend to be just before a junction or bend, the idea I assume is to warn you to slow down for the hazard, they are not usually just before a camera. What I normally find is that they are either so far in front of the hazard that they trigger before you need to start slowing for it or close enough to it that you should be looking at the hazard rather than being distracted by a flashing sign. The former may be of use to drivers unfamiliar with the road to alert them to the upcoming hazard I suppose, otherwise it is just a distraction you must learn to ignore.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

i'd be happy to set up an enforcement camera to keep an eye out for this....

agreed (i think), presumably most of these hazards are already signed....often with a unique sign already defined.... (hump bridges, sharp bends, slippy bends, off camber bends, docks!) so as you say a VAS is catering for those who cant/wont pay attention to these, when you'd really rather be encouraging good driving practice not allowing people to become reliant on extra warnings.

i guess one exception may be for time or temperature specific hazards like school zones or ice... (etc?)

Yes, your argument is [more] reasoned
Unfortunately, weepej was first off the starting block (starting the topic drift) and I had already started crossing swords when you first responded - that can't be helped. If anything, I would prefer non-reasoned arguments to not be presented at all.


Anyway, to address your point:


Not everyone can judge the speed of a car by the engine note, indeed some can’t be heard even when gently accelerating.
I drive a variety of cars, with different gear ratios and engine configurations.
Wind noise can be highly misleading, you could be fooled into thinking you’re doing 25 when your actually at 35 if there is a 10mph tailwind.
Road noise varies with the type of surface.


One issue surrounding this is the needlessly low setting of speed limits. You have to realise that people don’t set out to exceed limits, the great majority actually want to remain within them, but are caught out with the occasional creep back up to reasonable travelling speeds. For these people (perhaps not yourself), VAS is greatly preferable as only a reminder is needed to remain compliant and speedo gazing isn’t required; this is the group that would instead gaze at the speedo near speed cameras. Sure, others make the conscious decision to exceed them, but do so reasonably; yes some are unreasonable about it, but that is what police is for.


They cost a damned site less than enforcement, yet have about the same level of ‘success’ (and is that comparison including RTTM and ‘bias on selection’?).


People have done just that - as indicated by the speedo (by a small amount of course). Don’t forget, speedos usually overread and can do so by a lot…..

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Absolutely. They should be where they belong - in my passenger seat

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Naughty Pete


Yes, that's how it is by me toltec but I'm still left a little confused by the one I'm thinking of. It's a flashing about hundred yards from a school but you are alerted before the sign anyway by the sight of a million kids and nowhere to park on the road. So it's kinda surplus to requirement I think. I cycle past it to work, dodging the driver doors as all the yummy mummys get out of their cars


I bet your powerful sexy shaven tanned legs have been a distraction to others as well ed when you're cycling I mostly keep mine covered these days; not a pretty sight..

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

no shaving here thank you tone.

I understood what weepej was saying

A blind bend becomes more blind the faster you go around it in terms of safety, visual awareness, stopping distance etc. It's what I keep calling driving to the conditions, which so many don't these days sadly.

I'd still rather be looking at the road than my speedometer though, whether on a bend or not, but I need to pay more attention to my Speedo these days if I am to keep my licence, my job, my livelihood...

If the day ever comes that I run someone over and kill them when I am wondering what the speed limit is whilst gawping at my speedometer, it won't matter because at least I can say I wasn’t speeding.

Not good....


When you glance at the speedometer weepej are you looking at it more as an indication of what is safe, or what is legal? What is more important to you?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Yup, all these things vary the relationship but can be easily re-calibrated by a glance at the speedo, you seem to be saying that the majority of drivers are entirely reliant on their speedos 100% of the time to judge speed. whilst i can beleive that to be the case for absolute speed with any accuracy i find it hard to beleive i'm so supernaturally gifted that i can use these triggers to pick up a change in speed between speedo checks.




I agree low limits & 30creep is an issue, but spotting the change and repeaters really shouldn't be an issue for most drivers.
Not sure about people not setting out to exceed limits, any stats to back this up ofr just hearsay?

So on the one hand 'we' are campaigning for smarter enforcement alongside driver education & improved standards of driving, disliking the various active driver assistance systems being introduced on cars due to drive dumbing down, yet seem now happy to accept VAS as a good thing even though it appears to be a crutch for poor driving standards.



Sorry chap you've lost me there.

I read this as the OP wanting a VAS to 'give drivers a chance' to cehck their speed on entering a new speed limit area... surely the speed limit signs are already a pretty good opportunity for you to do this!

Mostly, but not always ed. Have you seen the new 30 limit on the Aston Expressway A38(M) coming from the M6 into Birmingham yet?

It was always a 40 limit and they changed it to 30 but me, and a million others, have been doing 40 because the new signs are small and very high up on a gantry.

People may say I should have been looking, I'm always bangin-on about keeping my eyes open and on the roads. True, but when something suddenly changes which is so small and high up, which hasn't shanged since the bloomin' road was built in the 50s/60s, you just don't look at it.

If they had a 30 sign lower down at the side of the road that would have helped. They have in fact recently put a sign there, at last, to say 'new limit in force' but up until then everyone missed the I don't know if you've been down there recently ed but it was easilly missed and the new limit is absurd.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

yes i have.. but not in that direction... my main wake up on that change was the repeaters which were 40 now being 30s (or have they gone altogether..... i recall something being different anyway)

Off topic posts have been split off into this thread.