Safe Speed Forums

I didn't realise that it was an offence in the UK to allow your engine to idle whilst the car is not moving.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/george-pakenham-man-on-emissions-2078395.html

I rather disagree with "there is no downside to switching off your engine when stationary". That would be true only if you didn't have to restart the engine.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

This is in New York in the USA!

AFAIK, it is an offence for commercial vehicles to sit idling while stationary for more than a few minutes but I was not aware that this applied to cars.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Or your car didn't have a turbo. Switching off immediately after a drive risks 'coking' the turbo (heat soak from the exhaust overheating the remaining oil); I don't know how valid this is for newer cars. However, three minutes in the slow-ish New York environment should be more than enough to cool any turbo.

Before I visited New York a few years ago, I didn't appreciate why people in the US use cars so much. Air con is a very welcome feature.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (England) Regulations 2002 - Section 6 defines the powers to deal with a "Stationery Idling Offence"

Stationary Idling appears to be defined as leaving an engines running unnecessarily (e.g. waiting outside school/station), having being asked to switch it off.

(There is a deliberate spelling error in this post which should raise a chuckle)

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Is stationery idling a notepad which is not being used?

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

"there is no downside to switching off your engine when stationary"

Except that it takes a good 30 seconds for the satnav/radio to restart, which also requires a couple of button pushes to get past the "Blue screen of lawyers" pages and of course I wouldnt be able to move off before doing all this.

Nearly enoght time for the lights to go back to red again!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Nice one. My old English teacher, P B Enfield (aka Pobble) gave us this trick to remember the difference - "The porter at the railway station is called Harry. You rarely see him moving. He is station 'arry". Much more fun than "e for envelope".

(It's my topic so I can drift where I want)

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I've heard tales of some councils doing taxi drivers under these regs. They counter by saying that it's the only way they can keep warm and de-misted while they're sat on the ranks on a rainy winter's day. Not sure the turbo thing is a problem though. I could well believe that on a competition car that had just been working hard round a race track, shutting down could cook the turbo bearings (or at least, the oil in them), but I think most ordinary production cars (especially diesels) wouldn't have any such problem. At most, I'd have though 30 seconds at idle before switching off would be adequate.

I'd not worry too much about modern turbos on cars. They do get hellish hot, but only when under load, in traffic it's not going to be a problem to switch it straight off. If you have been working it hard then let it idle, I do it in my n/a car.

Just to add, I did see a lot of cars being idled outside of shops when I was in ohio, it was to keep the interior cool. I doubt people would do it here for long enough to get prosecuted before some one nicked the car.

Of course over there car theft is treated rather more seriously and car theives can expect rather more than the customary "You naughty boy, If you do that again we will be really cross" that they get over here!

A first conviction for grand theft auto usually results in jail or prison time in excess of one year, depending on whether it is a felony or misdemeanor grand theft auto conviction, and can involve significant fines, probation, community service, and/or suspension of your driver's license, depending on the state. However, any subsequent convictions for grand theft auto are likely to result in more substantial jail or prison sentences and fines. As a general rule, any prior criminal convictions will tend to make penalties for subsequent criminal convictions more severe. Plus, in states with "three strikes" laws, such as California, a felony conviction for grand theft auto is likely to count as one of your three "strikes", which may ultimately result in more serious punishment for your grand theft auto felony charge. Additionally, even a first felony conviction can make you ineligible for certain employment or professions.

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Also apart from the electrical issues, and that is often recommended that it is best to not have equipment plugged in when starting up, and the turbo issues, is there not also a fuel consumption issue too? What about as well as a car coolant issues in warmer weather / air con running and then the alarm issues too ?
What about those additional mistakes that will be made with those that start accidentally in 1st gear and the additional crashes that may occur ?
What when it is raining or other bad weather - you need wipers and de-misters too, to enable good clear vision (or as best as possible) and they take time to obtain the best effect ?
What about at night and running lights - that may encourage some car to be less light up as some cars have lights turn off when the engine is turned off - plus the extra battery consumption if people leave the ignition on, and a chance of more battery failures?
What about the horn and locking the car - restarting the engine may need an alarm re-set and that may leave your car unlocked when you had it locked and that may lead to higher thefts and increased vulnerabilities.
Then of course the new 'habits' learned that leaving cars with ignition on (to help above) will mean more will accidentally get used to doing a bad thing and then leave it on at other times when not appropriate (possibly).
All teaching of habits can have other problems and issues - I cannot see the advantage for just a few minutes.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Claire,

4:36 am? !!!!!

Good grief.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Not to mention reduced starter motor/ring gear life.

This is not the 1970's and replacing starter motors nowadays is typically a non-trivial excercise. starters can easily cost well over £100 and in some cases can take several hours to fit.

As for ring gears!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Pre-engaged starters ended the vast majority of ring-gear and similar problems.
Cars no longer have to "draw the fuel in".

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Just avoid religion and politics or we’ll be here forever.

I don’t know if car handbooks are like my motorbike one but it does say you should turn it off because, I think, it will overheat. Strange really because it has an electric fan which kicks in when the temp gets to four LCD bars.

Give me an old analogue moving-coil needle type temp gauge any day..

Isn’t it dangerous to turn the engine off? What if you suddenly have to move to avoid something heading towards you?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I could see a reasonably strong case for "Not being in controll of the vehicle" being made for switching the engine off "While Driving"

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

I tend to switch my engine off if I know I'm going to be sationary for longer than a couple of minutes. Yes, there's a bit of extra wear and tear on the starter / ring gear, but I offset that with a reduction in wear and tear on the cooling fan and myriad of other moving parts that, well, er, "dont" when the engine is off! I save an egg-cup full of fuel, which is neither here nor there, but it's one more egg-cup full that I don't have to buy! I let the oil cool, fractionally, and cough out a few molecules less CO2. I think it's just swings and roundabouts, to be honest!

But how do you know how long you are going to be waiting? Count down indicators on traffic lights, especially temporary ones, would be an encouragement to stopping the engine. Typical scenario for me is to turn off the engine about 1 second before the lights go green.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

It's pretty rare that I turn them off at lights - for exactly the reasons you describe. Ithink the countdown timer would be an excellent (and not particularly expensive) idea - although only the first car or two would be able to see it). In fact, I wonder if that idea could be used more widely? On the one hand, it might diffuse tension - on the other, it might incite light jumping at contra-flows where the lead driver sees that the traffic coming the other way has stopped and he's only got 5 seconds to go. Worth exploring further I reckon!

It's also pretty rare that I trun it off at all - one of the best thing about living in a sparesely populated part of the country! The sort of situations I'm thinking of are those where the traffic on a motorway grinds to a halt, or some other sort of "gridlock". In those situations, it's easy to spot the vehicles a hundred yards or so ahead starting to move and get the "donkey" fired up again in plenty of time. I also admit to coasting in slow traffic queues where the road slopes downhill, rather than starting the engine (and yes, my steering is a bit heavy and the servo empties itself after a few brake applications, but I don't care! (well, what would you expect of someone whose driving is so slipshod that he even occasionally exceeds a speeed limit?!)

Yes and no!
Some traffic lights are triggered by vehicle activity, via induction loops (and I think radar [or light?] sensors), or pedestrian activity for combined junction/pelicon lights.
With triggered temporary lights, you could get a 5-20 second warning on roads where one carriageway is closed, depending on length of restriction.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign