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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 19:48 
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Debrett's issues Code of Conduct to cyclists and other towpath users

Debrett's has told cyclists ring their bells to warn pedestrians rather than forcing them aside as part of a new etiquette guide issued to towpath users.

British Waterways, who maintain the nation's canals, approached the high-society expert after receiving complaints from irate pedestrians who claimed that speeding cyclists refuse to slow down as they commute to work causing crashes and collisions by previously peaceful canals.

Now Debrett's, the modern authority on etiquette and taste, has launched a Code of Conduct for Commuters to remind cyclists that pedestrians always have right of way.

In a nod to old-fashioned values the code suggests that all towpath users "should be considerate to each other".

The guide adds: "A smile and a 'thank you' is courteous if someone has let you pass."

It advises cyclists to warn walkers of their approach by using "two tings" of their bicycle bell. It also suggests that those on foot listen out and are ready to move aside to allow bikes to pass.

In addition to offering advice on how towpath users treat each other Debrett's also demands that people never drop litter and that dog walkers always clean up after their pet.

Jo Bryant, an etiquette expert from Debrett's, said: "The towpaths are a lovely escape from the hustle and bustle of the roads and pavements of the city. They should be a more tranquil and relaxing place to travel along.

"But it seems that some people are forgetting their manners and speeding past other people, or refusing to move out of the way. Here at Debrett's we hope that these top tips will be a gentle reminder to towpath users, and encourage a return to more polite and amicable behaviour along waterways."

Debrett's also suggests that at busy times neither cyclists nor pedestrians should wear earphones which might prevent them from hearing the presence of others.

The code warns cyclists that they may have to dismount while going under narrow bridges if someone is already travelling the other way.

In London one accident hot spot is the Regent’s Canal, a route joining East London and the city which is very heavily used by cyclists and walkers particularly at peak times in the early morning and evening.

A spokesman for British Waterways said: "We have seen a huge increase in recent years in the number of people using canals as a means to get to work There was a big spike following the 7/7 bombing in London when people were looking for a different way to travel. As a result we have more people using the canals than ever before."

Britain has more than 2,200 miles of canals with the largest concentration found in London, Manchester and Birmingham.

Britain's canals are used by over 13 million people each year for walking, cycling, angling and boating.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 20:36 
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It advises cyclists to warn walkers of their approach by using "two tings" of their bicycle bell. It also suggests that those on foot listen out and are ready to move aside to allow bikes to pass.


AHEM- bell ( or other device to warn other road users of approach) - sadly seems to be missing from the vast majority of cycles on the streets . Perhaps we need some of those police folks whose job was originally supposed to encompass the policing of cyclists( and targeting dog crapping) to get pushed out onto the highways and byways to start "bicycle checks " .That's what the Plastics( aka PCSO) were said to be set up to do . What they actually do ---PASS .
Problem is that for every one cycling Gent ( or lady) , cycling to the cycling version of IAM, I see a dozen or more cycling thugs - using the road when it's clear ,and the pavement ( irrespective of pedestrians and their safety) to bypass traffic- often criss crossing roads

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 20:51 
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Bikes (I believe) have to be sold with a bell. But most are swiftly removed for some reason.

I can't imagine buying a new car and immediately removing the horn. :?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 21:05 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
I can't imagine buying a new car and immediately removing the horn. :?


The difference being that there is no legal requirement for a bicycle to have a bell whereas there is legal requirement for a car to have a horn.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 21:32 
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In that case maybe it should be law that a bicycle should have a working bell/horn at all times.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 21:47 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
Johnnytheboy wrote:
I can't imagine buying a new car and immediately removing the horn. :?


The difference being that there is no legal requirement for a bicycle to have a bell whereas there is legal requirement for a car to have a horn.


And the "Stating the bleedin' obvious" Reward 2010 goes to dcb.

But moving on...

a. Why is it a legal requirement to sell bikes with a bell if it's not a legal requirement to have one? Why bother going half way?

b. Would most car owners remove their horn if it wasn't a legal requirement to have one?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 21:58 
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graball wrote:
In that case maybe it should be law that a bicycle should have a working bell/horn at all times.


You mean like red lights stopping cyclists ( oh then they'll claim that green only means go if it's safe to do so ).Or not cycling on the pavement ,because of the risk to vulnerable folks . Sorry - they've only got one agenda- and the sooner that they're made to see that the law applies to them ,the better .

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 22:05 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
The difference being that there is no legal requirement for a bicycle to have a bell whereas there is legal requirement for a car to have a horn.[/quote]

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And the "Stating the bleedin' obvious" Reward 2010 goes to dcb.


I would have thought that the fact that there is legal requirement to sell bikes with a bell but not a legal requirement to have one was rather less than obvious. The fact that you say. " Why is it a legal requirement to sell bikes with a bell if it's not a legal requirement to have one? " would rather reinforce that opinion.

The reason is blindingly obvious. Whist it is, in general, a very good idea to have bells on bikes there are circumstances where having a bell is not desirable. Racing bicycles being the most obvious example.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 01:00 
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Sorry what? If a racing bike is to be used on the public highway, why shouldn't it have a bell? Does a bell adversely affect aerodynamics to a perceptible degree, or is it the fact that the less "cool" a bike has, the worse it is as a means of transport, hence no bell, lights, helmet, etc.?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 09:37 
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RobinXe wrote:
Sorry what? If a racing bike is to be used on the public highway, why shouldn't it have a bell?

Not all bicycle racing takes place on the public highway. Fitting a bell to a track racing machine would be in breach of UCI regulations.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:41 
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I don't see where anyone has suggested that bikes not used on the public highway should have bells. Are you comparing apples and watermellons again?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:52 
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RobinXe wrote:
I don't see where anyone has suggested that bikes not used on the public highway should have bells.


Graball made just such a suggestion - "In that case maybe it should be law that a bicycle should have a working bell/horn at all times." But I doubt if he really meant it: probably just another example of the imprecise writing which blights these forums :D :D

Quote:
Are you comparing apples and watermellons again?

No. Racing bicycles with utility bicycles. I am sure that I didn't mention fruit. Another example of the imprecise reading which blights theses forums. :D :D

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:40 
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Ah, so you were just being deliberately obtuse? I don't believe there is any requirement for F1 racing cars to have horns either, but it is still law that all cars on the public highway have them. If you want to discuss the merits of having bells on racing bikes then fill your boots, but I posit that it would be a conversation without merit.

As for your other (increasingly regular) jibes, do stop being such a moron, there's a good chap!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:57 
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Why does it have to be a horn when I can shout louder than one, especially if I get ‘the General’ caught in my zip? I suppose the answer is it’s more distinctive…

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 13:13 
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Big Tone wrote:
Why does it have to be a horn when I can shout louder than one, especially if I get ‘the General’ caught in my zip? I suppose the answer is it’s more distinctive…


Indeed, Tone. Even without recourse to the zip the human voice is a far better means of warning than is a bell. But Ben Bradshaw MP, chair of the All Party Parliamentary Cycling Group puts it better than I could :
Quote:
This is a nannyish measure and will have no impact whatsoever on road safety. A cyclist can't brake and ring a bell at the same time. Having had a bell fitted wouldn't have stopped that cyclist running into the blind lady's dog. The All Party Cycling Group takes the view that it's a dangerous move. The human voice is a lot louder and clearer than a bell and can be used in an emergency far quicker than a bell. In city centre traffic a bell can be drowned out and it would be better to shout a warning to a pedestrian. It's always much more polite to say 'excuse me' to a pedestrian when you want to get past.
"This law won't make people use bells it will just burden retailers, suppliers and customers with an extra expense. Customers can fit a bell if they want one. The type of bells manufacturers will fit to comply with the law will be cheap and they'll rust quickly and be useless in no time. This law hasn't been thought through.


And there are circumstances, such as approaching ridden horses from behind, where it is much safer to use ones voice than a bell.

(Checked for quotes, tags, doubling posting and moronic jibes) :D

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 13:22 
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Nit-picking - the last resort of the nit-picker :D

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 13:24 
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Pete317 wrote:
Nit-picking - the last resort of the nit-picker :D


Arguing that the voice is as good or better than a bell is hardly nit-picking. And that is a fully licensed nit-picker speaking :D

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 13:27 
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Game, set, match! :D :D :D :D :D

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 13:32 
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This is a nannyish measure and will have no impact whatsoever on road safety. A cyclist can't brake and ring a bell at the same time. Having had a bell fitted wouldn't have stopped that cyclist running into the blind lady's dog. The All Party Cycling Group takes the view that it's a dangerous move. The human voice is a lot louder and clearer than a bell and can be used in an emergency far quicker than a bell. In city centre traffic a bell can be drowned out and it would be better to shout a warning to a pedestrian. It's always much more polite to say 'excuse me' to a pedestrian when you want to get past.
"This law won't make people use bells it will just burden retailers, suppliers and customers with an extra expense. Customers can fit a bell if they want one. The type of bells manufacturers will fit to comply with the law will be cheap and they'll rust quickly and be useless in no time. This law hasn't been thought through.


Amazing! Now when we get equally ridiculous and impractical requirements dumped on the motor industry, the answer from the regulators seems to be "take it and like it chaps"!

Come to think of it, maybe we need an "All Party Driving Group" to represent drivers' interests - just in case we ended up with a proposal to implement some patently ridiculous motoring law...

...I mean, it COULD happen...!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 14:08 
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In city centre traffic a bell might be drowned out, but in a city centre full of people talking and shouting, is a voice really going to be heard? I don't think so. The pitch and tone of a bell is such that it is piercing, and noticeable through background noise. Take the cycle-rickshaw operators in the capital, they all have, and use, bells. One might consider them more experts on the subject than the chair of any governmental cycling group, who was no doubt driven to the place of quoting.

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