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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 19:34 
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Hello,

I am what is called an "advanced driver" from Israel. I also instruct advanced driving exclusivelly on one-on-one basis and I have now joined this forum to contribute the knowledge I have acquired from various institutions that deal in this field, in order to increase the knowledge and awareness of the forum readers, all for free.

First, preety much all I have to say/can say is concentrated in my online driving guide and blog. They are mainly oriented towards track driving, but the whole idea is to explore driving as a concept, so I mixed it all up: Road driving, track driving, rallying -- it's all in there.

On the subject of speed, which I gather is a major point in these forums. I live in a country where the driving culture is not very developed: Bad roads, lots of traffic, zero tolerance, semi-"underground" motorsport, and a bad combination of low speed limits on open roads and a legal problem of people violating those speed limits. I join the public protest to increase the speed limits on such roads, in my country and elsewhere, but I differ from many of my associates by standing in agreement to the notion that speeding does kill. So we should do just fine.

I view safe driving as being inevitably based on several elements. The first of which is a mental change of the driver: Reducating the driver for responsibility, awareness, patience, knowledge, skill and perception. These are the personal basis for "constructing" a good driver. Beyond that, the training I offer revolves around adopting new driving habits that will make the driver safer. These include preperation of the car in terms of fluids, tire maintenence, seating position, mirror alignment and steering hand positions, and moves on to more advanced things like steering style and visual acuity for anticipation of what is up ahead, and ends in basic emergency control skills that are supposed to be as applicable as they are efficient. Training like I offer and like bigger institutions or other (greater) instructors offer, have been shown to reduce collisions and collisions severity significantly and, in the personal level, can bring a person inch-close to the "100% safety" vision.

The first thing someone needs to understand is that driving is not a simple and automated action. If it were, we could start driving at the age of, say, 10, with no need for lessons, a test, restrictions, law enforcement, safety installments in the cars we drive and the roads the cars drive on, and would still suffer from no collisions what so ever. We must therefore conclude that driving is an action that requires our aware attention, and not a thing that you do in a "mental auto-pilot". Don't not-think and drive!

Having done that, one might move on to the personal characteristics that make up a good driver. The base here is to understand that modern psychology recognises changes in personal attributes to be quite possible, so we can choose to act in a certain way without it standing in contradiction to our "character". The first thing I want to refer to is Responsibility. Why do we begin to drive only at the age of circa 16? Because driving obviously requires maturity. Why? Because driving and getting from A to B stands for a powerfull ability: Independence. The modern teenager is fascinated with independence and freedom, and that's the source of the attraction to driving. But, maturity and independence should result in responsibility.

Responsibility is response-ability. It is the realization that the only one in charge of your destiny as a road driver is...YOU. You are your biggest threat and you are your best way around that threat. It all starts and ends with YOU. Even when circumstances are forced unto you, you can take responsibility for the decision of how to react to the given circumstances. In particular, you should avoid from blaming. Blaming is the opposite of taking responsibility for things. Instead of blaming the road/other driver/car for a collision of some sort, instead of even blaming yourself, take responsibility and think of it as a learning experience.

Besides responsibility, another important subject is awareness, which automatically relates to concentration. Concentration is maintained by planning and by fascination. Being fascinated by driving is the best way to maintain concentration. Treat driving as a value. Awareness also relates to hazard perception, which is the understanding of the peril posed by seemingly naive situations that develop on the road. A driver who is aware to hazards will maintain concentration when driving and not fall into distractions.

The third element is Patience. Patience relates primarly for kindness and tolerance when driving in traffic or when yielding at stop signs/intersections. Be as quick to forgive other drivers for thier mistakes as you are quick to forgive yourself for your mistakes. Remember, other drivers face the same difficulties as you, sometimes even more. No one wants to crash.

Perception is our way to make sense of the world. We know cars because we have a "mental model" that states what a car is. Perception relates primarly to our point of view: Drivers who seek safety are better than drivers who simply avoid hazards. Drivers who navigate into gaps in traffic are better than drivers who steer away from other cars in the traffic. Another point is the willingness to change driving habits to better driving habits. A third point is again to treat driving as a value. You should want to drive BETTER. Not faster, not even SAFER, but simply bettter. Drive better and safety will come as one of the by-products.

Knowledge is perhaps the element we driving trainers work on the most. The goal is to enrich the student with knowledge about what to do and what not to do, how to respond, etc...Skill goes deeper into the ability to perform to theoretical knowledge effectivelly. Sometimes, we have to compromise on this subject.

This is the mental stuff: Engineering the driver. Now, it's time to engineer the driving. This begins by a mere mental model for improvement. If we want to improve, we talk about movement from point A to point B. In order to make this movement, we need to pinpoint both A and B. This is "the process": Imagine your desired way of driving, compare to your current driving, and only than take measures to get from A to B. If you do not put both points, present and future, clearly before your eyes, the process is likely to get stuck.

Effective driving works at three levels: The driver himself -- his personal state of being (temper, physical state, fatigue, concentration). The car -- it's mechanical state of being and it's handling. The road -- it's state of being, it's shape, the hazards it poses. Other road users are considered as moving parts of the road. The three levels combine toghether. For instance, other drivers using the horn or lights can have an effect on the drivers personal state.

Actual driving habits begin from creating a safe enviornment in advance:
- Checking tires: I do not compromise on that subjects. The tires are our only, slim contact with the road. Tire maintenence, replacing and inflation are extremlly important.
- Other mechanical checks: Lubricants, coolant, clearity of glasses, brake fluids, dampers.
- Seating position: Extremlly important for awareness, reaction time, broad visual field and maximum car control, comfort and safety.
- Mirror adjustment: Can cut down "blindspots" to a level where they are ALMOST none-existant.
- Hands on the wheel: Quarter to-three. No other posture gives nearly the control or ride comfort.

On the road, it's important to practice the following:
- Steering styles: The manner in which we operate the steering mechanism can effect the effort we use and the response we get dramatically. I teach a selection of advanced steering styles which are too complex to be explained in a brief note like this. I teach one steering style for general use, another one for parking a car with heavy steering, and another for quick steering inputs.
- Visual acuity: This is possibly the most important element I work on with myself and with others. It revolves around looking up and using our eyes to recieve the information, plan our moves and execute our plan. The idea is to look up to the horizon, detect "hazards" and deal with them.
- The combination of smoothness, accuracy and decisiveness, which makes our driving inputs more sympethetic to our car.
- Speed and space management. Space management 360 degrees around the vehicle, reference to changes between the speed limit and the required speed, which are often two different speeds.
- Driving lines: Regardless of the shape of the road, it's up to us to decide when we will go in a straight line and when in a turn and by which severity of turning. The short concept is that when approaching a left-hander, we stick to the right-end of the lane, and patienty wait on the "highside" untill we can "dive" into the inside of the corner and cut almost straight through it.
- Emergency braking: Here I teach a simplified technique: Regardless of the existance or absence of ABS, I stick with the method of sticking the pedal to the metal. It is a technique I was exposed to by several local and European institutions and overall it seems surprisingly efficient. I do teach regressive braking for the sake of avoidance braking or braking in a bend without ABS.
- Skid recovery: Here, my instruction ends with knowing why a car would skid, when it would skid and how. The focus is on the cause of the slide, the tactile feedback recieved from the car, and the corrective inputs required are again simplified to match the abilites of the average road driver. With understeer, the solution is simply to gently roll unto the brake. With oversteer, the solution is to perform an emergency stop rather than trying to recover.

Sessions end with "trails" or goals set for the driver to work on, and with fluent counseling and maintaining his awarness level by montly updates in form of articles in the blog. Any further questions on the theory behind any of the aspects described above will be gladly answered with detail. If a driver follows this plan and manages to execute it nicely, he should be as near as it gets to 100% safety.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 21:57 
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Astraist wrote:
all for free.
Cynic mode ON

Astraist wrote:
First, preety much all I have to say/can say is concentrated in my online driving guide and blog. They are mainly oriented towards track driving, but the whole idea is to explore driving as a concept, so I mixed it all up: Road driving, track driving, rallying -- it's all in there.
Thanks for your free advert on Safe Speed. :roll:

Astraist wrote:
...but I differ from many of my associates by standing in agreement to the notion that speeding does kill.
I don't like sound-bites or sweeping statements from a newcomer who purports to know so much about a subject where others have offered so much more in opposition. :nono:


PS. Word of advice.. Get to know the forum and back your argument up with facts before shooting from the hip! You can attract more flies with honey than vinegar, as I used to hear in America.

I didn't get to the end of your OP but it started to sound like COAST, and I prefer the laconic version TBH...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 20:38 
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Let's have a bit of patience. I know Astraist from another forum and he has useful things to contribute. Not all of it transfers directly from Israel to the UK, but I think we ought to give him a fair hearing.

Best wishes all,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 23:24 
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Shalom!,
Great to have the opportunity to hear thoughts from Israel.Would you be able to educate me on the use of LTI 20.20 or the marksman as a speed enforcement device and any key cases currently in progress in Israel.
In fact can you provide the details of a scientist/s (Might have been 3 in the team) who carried out tests on this speed enforcement devices in Israel believe around 1995.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 00:15 
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One thing I do notice is that Astraist mentions track driving, as opposed to road driving .I believe the difference is that on roads ,you may meet some idiot( homicidal /suicidal , I ll leave that up to the experts in English language to debate) , who irrespective of adjective can maim /kill ,by virtue of being on the wrong side of the road ,either by bad driving or inaccurate reading of the road ( again = bad driving).However ,on track ( AFAIK) ,everybody drives in the same direction . :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 09:36 
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TripleS wrote:
Let's have a bit of patience. I know Astraist from another forum and he has useful things to contribute. Not all of it transfers directly from Israel to the UK, but I think we ought to give him a fair hearing.

Best wishes all,
Dave.
Okay Dave, maybe I got off to a bad start. I still think it wasn't the best introduction mind and my cynic mode is still on... ;)

I would liked to have heard more on his view of why/how & what speed kills where and under what circumstances? Saying speed kills is like saying, to use an old analogy, that knives kill.

Yes, of course they do if they are in the wrong hands or you use them inappropriately! The same goes for guns, drugs, alcohol......

Use them responsibly, as you would or should use your speed. The speed limits have had absolutely no meaning to me this past week in the bad morning frost on my motorbike. Do they even have frost or snow in Israel? :scratchchin:

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 14:16 
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Big Tone wrote:
I would liked to have heard more on his view of why/how & what speed kills where and under what circumstances? Saying speed kills is like saying, to use an old analogy, that knives kill.


Tone. To be fair, there is a vast difference between saying "speeding kills", which is what OP said, and "speed kills", which you attribute to him. AFAIAC speeding means travelling at an inappropriately high speed for the conditions and it is inarguable that that leads to accidents, often fatal.

As to the rest of his post it seems basically sound and he seems to share our dislike for inappropriate speed limits. So give him a proper :welcome:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 14:32 
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I'd prefer to keep the term "speeding" SOLELY as meaning "exceeding a speed limit". I think "inappropriate speed for the conditions" is something VERY different (although of course, there can be an overlap). There won't be (I imagine!) anyone on this site who thinks the latter is a good idea, but I expect most would be rather more agnostic about the former - depending on conditions). There are many in authority who seek to combine the two to make "speeding" look worse than it really is. It would suit their purposes very well to blur (or even remove) the distinction! There are also those who (wilfully, in some cases :wink: !) misunderstand the Safespeed philosophy in order to discredit us and give the impression that we actually want a limitless free-for-all on the roads. For both reasons I don't think we can ever over-emphasise the importance of the distinction!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 15:35 
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Mole wrote:
I'd prefer to keep the term "speeding" SOLELY as meaning "exceeding a speed limit". I think "inappropriate speed for the conditions" is something VERY different


I disagree with you, Moley. Speeding is now, for better or worse a pejorative term and I don't want to use a pejorative term to describe safe behaviour such as exceeding the speed limit when it is safe to do so. It would be better not to use the word at all rather than have it confused between "exceeding the speed limit when it is safe to do so" and "travelling at an inappropriate speed for the conditions" which are, I agree, two VERY VERY different concepts which should NEVER EVER be equated.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 17:52 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
Tone. To be fair, there is a vast difference between saying "speeding kills", which is what OP said, and "speed kills", which you attribute to him.
Speeding can kill but so does not speeding, so why accuse speeding when you can equally kill not speeding?

In fact, technically speaking, one could argue that if you were speeding but at the moment of a ‘killer impact’ you were below the limit because you scrubbed enough speed off then by definition you are not speeding and it wasn’t responsible for killing.

Now compare that to someone who wasn’t speeding before the same impact but didn’t break at all because of their three seconds of complete inattention. Same result but speed is always the bad guy. :?

The speed limit in my local Morrisons is 5mph. If someone bumps into a car at twice the limit people don’t cry “speeding!” They blame some idiot for pulling out. What happens to that same mentality when it is on a public highway?


Astraist wrote:
…but I differ from many of my associates by standing in agreement to the notion that speeding does kill.
In my world “speeding does kill” and “speed does kill” are two sides of the same coin since any speed can kill and a posted sign doesn't change any outcome, just the definition, which is why I am resistant to change my opinion on your comment but sorry for forgetting my manners Astraist..

:welcome:

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 21:09 
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Mole wrote:
I'd prefer to keep the term "speeding" SOLELY as meaning "exceeding a speed limit". I think "inappropriate speed for the conditions" is something VERY different (although of course, there can be an overlap). There won't be (I imagine!) anyone on this site who thinks the latter is a good idea, but I expect most would be rather more agnostic about the former - depending on conditions). There are many in authority who seek to combine the two to make "speeding" look worse than it really is. It would suit their purposes very well to blur (or even remove) the distinction! There are also those who (wilfully, in some cases :wink: !) misunderstand the Safespeed philosophy in order to discredit us and give the impression that we actually want a limitless free-for-all on the roads. For both reasons I don't think we can ever over-emphasise the importance of the distinction!



+1 :clap: well said

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 23:57 
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Big Tone wrote:
dcbwhaley wrote:
Tone. To be fair, there is a vast difference between saying "speeding kills", which is what OP said, and "speed kills", which you attribute to him.
Speeding can kill but so does not speeding, so why accuse speeding when you can equally kill not speeding?


People die if you stick a knife in their guts. But people who don't have a knife stuck in their guts sometime drop dead from natural causes.. So why accuse the knife-wielder? Because you are more likely to die from the knife wound than from natural causes.

Similarly someone speeding - travelling at a speed faster than is appropriate for the conditions - is more likely to cause a fatal accident than someone not speeding - travelling at an appropriate speed. If that is not so why should we bother with regulating our speed at all rather than travelling at the fastest speed the engine can manage?

Neither I nor, as far as I can tell, OP is saying that excessive speed is the only, or even the major cause, of RTAs

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 01:12 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
Mole wrote:
I'd prefer to keep the term "speeding" SOLELY as meaning "exceeding a speed limit". I think "inappropriate speed for the conditions" is something VERY different


I disagree with you, Moley. Speeding is now, for better or worse a pejorative term and I don't want to use a pejorative term to describe safe behaviour such as exceeding the speed limit when it is safe to do so. It would be better not to use the word at all rather than have it confused between "exceeding the speed limit when it is safe to do so" and "travelling at an inappropriate speed for the conditions" which are, I agree, two VERY VERY different concepts which should NEVER EVER be equated.


Ok, I see your point. Unfortunately, in today's dumbed-down "sound bite" society, I don't think either of the alternative terms are snappy enough to stick though. How about "inappropriate speed" and "excess speed"? Still not great, but maybe it'll start the ball rolling! The main thing is that we're in agreement on the important issue - they're different things!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 07:04 
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:welcome: Astraist

Note - I have moved the thread away from the Improving Road Safety but to here so that we can stay on topic by discussing your wider aspects of race driving parameters.

To verify some of your general points :
Safe Speed believes that it is the 'inappropriate use of speed that may kill', 'speeding' is currently and widely used especially by Police as meaning 'going above the posted limit'. 'Excessive speed' (for conditions) is often used as meaning going above the speed suitable for the prevailing conditions (usually at the time of the offence or resulting accident) and can be within or above the posted limit. (All relating to travel on the Queens Highway.)
I appreciate that setting of speed limits needs to be correct for a 'Nation's ability, and perhaps in a 'developing driving culture' it is necessary to recognise when the Country is ready for changes. This will stem from good sound research, and understanding the concepts of what makes a good safe motorist.
Over here it has traditionally been set at the '85th percentile' see :
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/speed.html and http://www.safespeed.org.uk/speeding.html

I don't think that it is so much 'constructing' a driver (to be good) but to encourage and help develop the (all important) self interest in motoring that the personal attitude and interest provide desire to learn. Self improvement then in turn gives back achievement and self confidence and knowledge grows for that individual. This then becomes self perpetuating and with experience brings more confidence and greater understanding and development. The personal 'toolbox' grows and the confidence and experience gained now flourishes, with a good attitude and great recognition of the responsibility involved. :)

We are in agreement about many aspects for sure and there is much to discuss. :)

If there were no other motorists then we would have no need for rules it regulations. It is the act of interactions with other motorists, (on the public road) that makes the need for 'Standards' 'continuity' and 'predictable' situations necessary, so that regular environments are common-place and thus understandable, repeatable and respected. Engineering helps to create the roads and improve them, the enforcement helps to control them and the road users are to behave as well as possible. This provides a common safety element as standardised brings known environments that have learned reactions and behaviours.

Totally agree with learning from road situations.

The COAST 'process' has been widely promoted in the UK for years :
C - concentration, consideration, conditions, courtesy
O - observation
A - Attitude, awareness, anticipate
S - space (safety gap), speed
T - time to react (2 second gap), travel time (plenty to complete journey).

Couple this with Skills, Knowledge, Ability, Risk Management and having good judgement.
The good driver (rider) is the best road safety asset.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:45 
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Pardon the facetious comment below.

My thoughts on road safety are these.
Roads are 100% safe, nobody was ever killed or injured by being driven into by a road.
People are not safe, they kill and injure themselves and others with alarming regularity, the motor vehicle being just one item with which they accomplish that "task"
In a sane world, people and vehicles would never be allowed to be together (and I'm sure the same was said of people and horses)

The comments may be unhelpful...but....the safest roads we have for people are motorways....only those in or on vehicles are at risk.
There has to be a moral there, somewhere.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 23:59 
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jomukuk wrote:
Pardon the facetious comment below.

My thoughts on road safety are these.
Roads are 100% safe, nobody was ever killed or injured by being driven into by a road.
People are not safe, they kill and injure themselves and others with alarming regularity, the motor vehicle being just one item with which they accomplish that "task"
In a sane world, people and vehicles would never be allowed to be together (and I'm sure the same was said of people and horses)

The comments may be unhelpful...but....the safest roads we have for people are motorways....only those in or on vehicles are at risk.
There has to be a moral there, somewhere.


A moral - keep the "road safety experts " on an office in the basement - and leave road policing to the blokes who've earned the ability to wear a white police cap ( with a right to terminate the SCP IN HIS AREA).

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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