Safe Speed Forums

Hope this is in the right board section, but here is a fool-proof method to avoid the NIP if you are sure a camera has done you. The police have 14 days to get the NIP to you. So what you do is simply block up your letterbox for the 14 day period! Go to a DIY shop, get a suitable piece of wood, then carefully measure the size of the box, width, height , depth, and cut the wood accordingly so you have a really snug fit in the letterbox. Nail a smaller piece at right angles onto the block of wood, place it in the letterbox and then screw the smaller piece onto the back of your front door, to make sure it is held securely in place, and Hey Presto! When the postman tries to deliver the NIP, he can't, so it has to be sent back to the police. If they can't serve it within the 14 days, then that's the end of the matter.
By the way, if you are going to block your box up, don't forget to keep your downstairs windows CLOSED as well!!! After all, you don't want your friendly neighbourhood postman dropping the letter through an open window, that you very carelessly forgot to close, do you? Thus rendering your letterbox blocking tactic useless.
And don't forget, if you have no fence or gate at the side of your property, and it's possible for someone to walk round to the side or back, ensure you keep windows at the side and rear closed too. A postman is unlikely to walk round to the back, but it's best to be on the safe side!

A further word of caution. Let us say the NIP is posted on the 10th day, the postman tries to deliver it on the 11th day, and Royal Mail send it back and it reaches the police the next day, the 12th day. Now if it's the local force who sent the letter, they still have two days to send a constable, or a PCSO clown round to your house to try and deliver by hand!!! So if anyone knocks at your door, check carefully to make sure it is not a PC/PCSO standing outside. If it is, THEN DON'T OPEN IT!!!!! You are not obliged to. Let them knock. Better still, go and sit upstairs and put a blanket over your head and pretend they are not there, and they'll go away.

Now then, is this tactic legal? Of course it is. There is no law that says you have to have a letterbox, is there? And no law to say you cannot block up your letterbox either!! If they can't serve that NIP by post, or personal visit, within 14 days, then there is nothing further they can do. They cannot prosecute.

VIZ tip #1234 - A good alternative to blocking your letter box is to train your dog to chew up all letters that are in brown envelopes. That also ensures that you will never have to pay utility bills or council tax or receive unsolicited advertising material.

Isn't there a presumption, for the serving of NIPs, that if the letter is delivered to the post office it is deemed to have been received by the addressee?

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Service is by posting, not delivery.

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

WRONG!

They have to post the NIP in time to arrive within 14 days assuming no delays in the postal system.

It does not have to arrive at all.

Not that I agree with the OP, but HTF would I know I've got a NIP if they don't have to deliver it?!?!?

But how could they know that e.g. the dog ate it etc?

Hi there. I anticipated that some posters would say that mere posting of the letter by the police counts as service, and they only have to post it within the 14 day period. That's actually not true. There was a court case, I think it was in Hull a year or two ago. The police sent an NIP within the 14 days but it was held up in a postal strike, and so was delivered late. The police claimed that they sent it in good faith and it wasn't their fault there was a postal delay. The judge threw this argument out, and stated it has to arrive within the 14 day period. I also contacted a motoring solicitor recently to ask for an opinion about what happens if the postman cannot deliver due to a blocked letterbox. He said if not delivered it's not served, and would have to be sent back to the police, who can then make a personal visit if there is time.

And remember the ACPO Code recommends that NIP's are sent by recorded delivery to prove service. The mere fact of putting it in the post does not constitute service.It has to be delivered through the letterbox or personally by hand to prove service.
Also there could be an alternative reason why someone has blocked their letterbox. You could have a second home in Switzerland where you spend six months of the year. Or you could have gone away on a round the world cruise on your yacht! The police have no right to assume that this has not happened.
If an NIP is not sent back by the Mail, the police have a reasonable right to think it has been served, then after the 28 days are up they can send a reminder. If no response, that is when they can begin court proceedings and issue a summons. If you don't turn up you will be convicted in absentia.
But service of that initial document has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt before they can do that, or the accused is being deprived of his legal rights.

In any case I know of two people who have successfully tried this tactic when they realised they had sped past a camera, and no more was heard of it.

Just to emphasize : if you receive an NIP you must not destroy it and then pretend you never received it, because the police have heard this before and they won't believe you. You could then end up being charged with attempting to pervert the course of justice!!!!

However if your box is blocked you can truthfully claim with a clear conscience that you never received it, and the letter anyway will be sent back to them by the Mail and marked as unable to deliver. If the police want to come round and look at your letterbox for themselves they can do, but you don't have to be in when they call do you? There is nothing further they can do. They certainly cannot obtain a court warrant to force entry and deliver it, as speeding is a Summary Offence. No court can issue a warrant over it.

Regards.

There are far too many things that are wrong with this proposal.


Judges have been known to misunderstand the way the world works. Not all judges are like that, so I would recommend that people do not rely upon this tactic.

There is also the clause of service within the course of normal delivery. A postal strike confounds matters. That particular result can be deemed to be a special case that doesn’t normally apply.


A recommendation isn't a stipulation. I think you are muddying the waters there!

Your stance might by morally right, but in law it is not – the law is what gets one sent to prison!

Besides, most NIPs go out swiftly such that they usually arrive well within the 14 day limit. In many cases, there will still be time for the 'return to sender' and for them to have another attempt, perhaps by more 'certain' methods; your words: "...police, who can then make a personal visit if there is time.".






I have to say this is a rather extreme way of dealing with what might be a non-event.

That’s a whole two weeks of: cutting yourself off from the world, ignoring all mail, deliveries and visitors, and probably not going out at all too - well you don’t want to be caught passing through an open doorway do you?

Even then, you have to know that you potentially tripped a camera. I think most people first realise they have been caught when the NIP actually arrives (assuming they weren't immediately pulled by trafpol). So are you suggesting that folks permanently cut all social contact? That can’t work as people have to go out in order to be caught speeding......

What about anyone else who shares your dwelling? They would have to be subjected to the same social cutoff for something that only affects you. It’s a virtual imprisonment for all concerned!

There is also the argument that the authorities have about another 6 months to deliver a summons subsequent to the initial service. It’s a slam-dunk if you’re not the RK (registered keeper) or haven’t registered your vehicle properly!


I would be concerned that if you blocked your letterbox such that no delivery can be made, then as far as the authorities are concerned, your registered address is not valid. If that were deemed to be the case, not only can the 6 month rule be applied (the 14 day rule becomes invalid as the RK wouldn't exist - that in itself attracts penalties), you can also be pulled by any ANPR check and the police can give you a verbal NIP or simply have you arrested there and then!
I don’t know if all that is true, but is it something you expect folks to chance?


And for what? For the slim chance that you might receive a NIP?
Remember that not all cameras are active and that speedos generally over-read. Either of those factors could reasonably explain why your two contacts managed to seemingly get away with it.

… so how could they know if NIPs were sent out if they couldn’t know what was delivered to them? You cannot claim any success from these particular events.



The only thing you have said that we can all agree on!

This campaign is about the effects of speed and methods of speed enforcement; it is not about evading the law.



In reality, your proposal is requires what most people would consider insurmountable trade-offs, possibly illegal, and far from infallible.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Blocking your letter box to prevent delivery of the NIP could be construed as perverting the course of justice. And even if the letterbox is blocked the NIP could be served by the postie leaving it on your doorstep.

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

LoL, and my Tiger repellent belt is still serving me well.

I thought it was a tiger repelling rock? [The Simpsons]

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The NIP does not need to be served, the prosecutors only have to show that it was posted and in the normal course of events would have been delivered.

A SUMMONS can be served by dropping it on the floor/ground in front of the person to be served if they refuse to accept it.

http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/procedure/notice_of_intended_prosecution.htm

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Dear Zulu
Silly yes, infallible no.

Road Traffic Offenders' Act 1988 s1(1)c sets out the requirement to serve the NIP within 14 days of the offence.

Road Traffic Offenders' Act 1988 s2(3)b deals with what happens when you nail up your letter box.

(3) Failure to comply with the requirement of section 1(1) of this Act is not a bar to the conviction of the accused in a case where the court is satisfied—
(a)that neither the name and address of the accused nor the name and address of the registered keeper, if any, could with reasonable diligence have been ascertained in time for a summons or, as the case may be, a complaint to be served or for a notice to be served or sent in compliance with the requirement, or
(b)that the accused by his own conduct contributed to the failure.

So there you go, all the CPS have to do is make it reasonable to the Magistrates that preventing delivery by blocking up your letterbox has prevented the post man from putting it through your door. That won't be hard.
You may be able to convince the Magistrates that you were of unstable mind and so cannot be tried for the offence by your behaviour. The problem with that is though, a reasonable Magistrate would probably believe you were just an idiot.
RK = 3 points for speeding as the Magistrates are entitled to assume you were the driver of a vehicle you own or are the registered keeper of and 6 points for failing to tell the police who was driving it at the time of the speeding offence. plus 2 fines and a victim surcharge. Good advice, keep it up.

I was just waiting for Greenshed to get involved. I think, as usual, you are just "trolling", my friend. Your understanding of the law is somewhat flawed.
I think most people on here have twigged that you work for a camera partnership, hence your vested interest. I think you should be worried about your own job, because with the Coalition cuts, I think you and your ilk may soon be going on the dole! Have a nice day, friend.

Hi there Steve, I take on board what you say, and I agree it can be seriously inconvenient to cut off all mail for two weeks etc. But it can be done. It isn't so hard as you may think. Not that I have had cause to try it myself. However, I might respectfully suggest that some of the legal objections you have made are not really valid. You mention being pulled in an ANPR check and possibly being arrested. Speeding is a summary offence, and you cannot be arrested for it, or for the fact that you did not receive an NIP. As I stated, there is absolutely no law in this land that says you commit a crime by blocking your letterbox. You cannot be punished over this.The advice from a solicitor was that service of the NIP has to be effected by letterbox delivery or personal visit from the police. If they do call round, you are not obliged to answer the door. Nor can they obtain an arrest warrant, or any other type of warrant to force entry to the property over a matter such as this.

Also objections that either you or others have made saying that the authorities have to be able to contact you, well, anyone can make arrangements for mail to be sent to an accomodation address, if for example you were going out of the country for a while. You are not obliged to notify the police when you are going away.

I stress again: from the info given to me by a solicitor, if the letter is returned to the police undelivered, and they cannot get an answer by personal visit, they can take no further action.

And as I previously said, NEVER, ABSOLUTELY NEVER, lie to the police and say you never got the NIP if in fact you did. They have heard all this before. You could end up being done for perjury or perverting the couse of justice. Regards.

Ok so a PC attends, sees you in, knocks at the door and you don't answer. Why does section 2(3)b of RTOA 1988 not come into effect?
All the CPS need is a statement from the PC that he saw that you were in and you failed to answer his knock. Job done. You need to change your solicitor.

Wrong again Greenshed! How is the PC going to see you are in??? Does he have x-ray eyes that can see through walls? You are not obliged to open your front door unless the caller has a warrant, he would presumably shout out the fact and would have to show you it at the window. No one is obliged to open the door otherwise. An Englishman's home is his castle. Your short reply in any case seems to show you accept my answers to your earlier post.

Good luck after Christmas in looking for your new job. regards.

But can you be arrested for not responding to the NIP? I bet you could if a pattern emerged, especially where a summons is involved – that’s right, speeding can lead directly to a summons, which can in turn lead to an arrest. You don’t have to look far for examples where people have been jailed for actions following a simple speeding offence.


Except that you would have to prove you were away (or other event) should you need to defend against a charge of failure to name.


Yes they can. They can query the details held on the DVLA database and set flags on it; then they can pull you over at any time, take your details and initiate an investigation. The flags can take effect indefinitely!

To repeat an earlier point:
The fact that you didn’t receive a NIP does not mean the NIP was not served; in fact in law it will be considered to have been served regardless of whether you actually got it. Hence after those 14 days the police/prosecution have another 6 months to present papers to court, during which time they can chase you all they like.
6 months – that’s greater than the duration of a driving ban for totting up - is that really worth it?

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I think he has been to Billy the Kid's para-legal pocket-picking service.

Steve I disagree with your reasoning. Yes, speeding can lead to a summons, but the NIP has to be served first. And I insist that service means letterbox delivery or personal delivery on the doorstep. If an NIP has been served and you ignore it and any subsequent reminder, then a summons will be issued. If convicted in absentia, the court will obviously write to you to notify you of the penalty. It is when this is ignored that an arrest warrent will be issued. My stance on the service of NIP's could be verified if perhaps someone with some legal qualifications could contribute to this. I stress that my info came from a motoring solicitor, and I have no reason to think he is wrong. Out of interest what are the views of the site moderators on this I wonder?

Incidentally there is something in common law called Implied Right of Access, which gives people the right to knock at your door. A householder has the right to withdraw the Implied Right of Access. Even a policeman calling at your property only has the Implied Right of Access, unless he has a warrant, or is pursuing a crime that has just been committed.

Would just add that Greenshed started out saying that posting the NIP proved it was served, but in a later post said a policeman would only have to see me in, then report I had not opened the door, for the CPs to act. As usual he doesn't know what he's on about.

My suggested tactic is a legal loophole,and is no more encouraging evading the law than a driver who was speeding but gets off because it was found the camera was uncalibrated.

It doesn't make too much odds to the courts what your solicitor is advising you the courts are accepting the Road Traffic Offenders' Act 1988 s2(3)b and convicting in the situation you describe.
Good luck with your method. Are you going to charge £29.99 a time for giving it?